[skarra]

We can certainly measure the increasing ocean water temperatures which has a direct impact on the severity of the storms we've been experiencing. But something that Musk highlighted during his recent conversation with a certain ex-President was the effect the rising levels of CO2 in our atmosphere will have on the human race.

In addition to the need to be moving to a more sustainable energy economy meaning getting away from oil and gas (demonstrating how short sighted a drill baby drill strategy is), he pointed out that as CO2 levels continue to rise we will be subjected to physiological problems like headaches and nausea and then ultimately it even becomes uncomfortable to breathe. The levels we are talking about are 1,000 PPM which based upon on the trajectory we are on will be by the end of this century (the actual trajectory since 1960 has been a straight line upwards thanks to industry and our addiction to fossil fuels - Trends in CO2 - NOAA Global Monitoring Laboratory and Scripps CO2 Program).

So rather than climate change and the warming of our planet, maybe we should be thinking about the problems associated with elevated CO2 levels including our ability to breathe. Based upon that, burning more fossil fuels will only exacerbate that problem. That's at least one thing that I think Musk is getting right.

Food for thought. Makes me want to buy an EV or at least a hybrid next time I buy a car.

[Two Bills]

Do people who keep on banging on about how bad the air is, not remember back to pre and post WW2 times.
As a kid growing up in those post war times, the air was foul, full of coal smoke, lead, sulfur, and God knows what else, and every winter, for sure here in the UK, thousands died from the smog and fogs it created.
In the mid 1950s a clean air act was passed, and slowly great improvements were made.
Nowadays emissions from industry and cars are minimal compared to those times, and as far as I can tell air quality has never been better.
I know climate is changing, only a fool would deny it, but all down to cars and industry?
I don't think so.
What happens if by some miracle we get to the Holy Grail of zero emissions and the climate continues to change?
Will enough ever be enough for the zealot industry?
Mother Nature must be laughing her socks off as she does her own thing.

[MorTech]

Carbon dioxide does not cause warming because it cannot hold heat - cuz its a heavy gas that stinks to ground level. Humidity holds heat so that would make atmospheric water a huge problem People working in greenhouses that burn propane to increase CO2 levels far beyond 1000 ppm are not suffocating...Are they? Early Homo species were surviving quite nicely with CO2 levels above 2500 ppm. Early mammals and dinosaurs at 8000 ppm.

If the planet ever warms to its optimal 69F temperature (It is at 60F today), then atmospheric CO2 will be about 1200 ppm. It is really too bad man can't cause global warming...It would be ideal.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by MorTech

Carbon dioxide does not cause warming because it cannot hold heat - cuz its a heavy gas that stinks to ground level. Humidity holds heat so that would make atmospheric water a huge problem People working in greenhouses that burn propane to increase CO2 levels far beyond 1000 ppm are not suffocating...Are they? Early Homo species were surviving quite nicely with CO2 levels above 2500 ppm. Early mammals and dinosaurs at 8000 ppm.

If the planet ever warms to its optimal 69F temperature (It is at 60F today), then atmospheric CO2 will be about 1200 ppm. It is really too bad man can't cause global warming...It would be ideal.

Well said!!!!!!

Unfortunately, speaking the truth to the indoctrinated cultists will fall on deaf ears. And the power brokers that are manipulating these poor misguided folks will label you as Quixotic, while laughing all the way to the bank.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by skarra

We can certainly measure the increasing ocean water temperatures which has a direct impact on the severity of the storms we've been experiencing. But something that Musk highlighted during his recent conversation with a certain ex-President was the effect the rising levels of CO2 in our atmosphere will have on the human race.

In addition to the need to be moving to a more sustainable energy economy meaning getting away from oil and gas (demonstrating how short sighted a drill baby drill strategy is), he pointed out that as CO2 levels continue to rise we will be subjected to physiological problems like headaches and nausea and then ultimately it even becomes uncomfortable to breathe. The levels we are talking about are 1,000 PPM which based upon on the trajectory we are on will be by the end of this century (the actual trajectory since 1960 has been a straight line upwards thanks to industry and our addiction to fossil fuels - Trends in CO2 - NOAA Global Monitoring Laboratory and Scripps CO2 Program).

So rather than climate change and the warming of our planet, maybe we should be thinking about the problems associated with elevated CO2 levels including our ability to breathe. Based upon that, burning more fossil fuels will only exacerbate that problem. That's at least one thing that I think Musk is getting right.

Food for thought. Makes me want to buy an EV or at least a hybrid next time I buy a car.

Anything renewable or green made from mining and fossil fuels. Agree we could cut that level but the world has to be on same page. We in United States have the highest standards in world , until rest of world meets our standard there nothing we can do except going down same old road.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

the real and present danger is the collapse in biodiversity
example: kill enough bees and pollination falls far enough where it affects fruit and vegetable production.

but no need to worry, it won't completely collapse because increased CO2 helps plants and vegetation grow faster.

[mraines]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Anything renewable or green made from mining and fossil fuels. Agree we could cut that level but the world has to be on same page. We in United States have the highest standards in world , until rest of world meets our standard there nothing we can do except going down same old road.

So if your neighbor had trash all over his property, would you do the same? It's up to each of us to do what we can to clean up this planet.

[Bassdeer]

Keep buying your EV's, Have to keep the child slave labor digging for cobalt going in the Congo.

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Anything renewable or green made from mining and fossil fuels. Agree we could cut that level but the world has to be on same page. We in United States have the highest standards in world , until rest of world meets our standard there nothing we can do except going down same old road.

Many would dispute that statement, and not be wrong.

[skarra]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

Do people who keep on banging on about how bad the air is, not remember back to pre and post WW2 times.
As a kid growing up in those post war times, the air was foul, full of coal smoke, lead, sulfur, and God knows what else, and every winter, for sure here in the UK, thousands died from the smog and fogs it created.
In the mid 1950s a clean air act was passed, and slowly great improvements were made.
Nowadays emissions from industry and cars are minimal compared to those times, and as far as I can tell air quality has never been better.
I know climate is changing, only a fool would deny it, but all down to cars and industry?
I don't think so.
What happens if by some miracle we get to the Holy Grail of zero emissions and the climate continues to change?
Will enough ever be enough for the zealot industry?
Mother Nature must be laughing her socks off as she does her own thing.

I think you completely missed the point. It's not sulphur, mercury, and all those other nasties that could severely impact our health - it's also what you can't see. Think of Carbon Monoxide in your home - invisible and yet kills. We may think everything is "clean", but as CO2 levels rise you will find it harder to breathe and as Elon points out we will all start to suffer. Sort of like a frog in a pot of water slowly being brought to the boil.

My intent is to point out that besides climate change, elimination of biodiversity, and all the other problems a reliance on fossil fuels creates - CO2 is a very simple one to understand. It's easy to measure, and the charts make it very plain as to what is going on.

Maybe it's a case of the Millenials and Gen Z's will have to deal with this because we will all be dead when it starts to rear it's ugly head. But whatever the case, we (the not so "wise" old ones) are not leaving the world in a great place for our grand children.

[skarra]

Originally Posted by MorTech

Carbon dioxide does not cause warming because it cannot hold heat - cuz its a heavy gas that stinks to ground level. Humidity holds heat so that would make atmospheric water a huge problem People working in greenhouses that burn propane to increase CO2 levels far beyond 1000 ppm are not suffocating...Are they? Early Homo species were surviving quite nicely with CO2 levels above 2500 ppm. Early mammals and dinosaurs at 8000 ppm.

If the planet ever warms to its optimal 69F temperature (It is at 60F today), then atmospheric CO2 will be about 1200 ppm. It is really too bad man can't cause global warming...It would be ideal.

Now you're mixing the heating problem with the gas problem I'm highlighting.

Early homo sapiens have NEVER existed with CO2 levels at the 2500 PPM level, and the end of this century is nowhere long enough for us to evolve to be able to. You have to go further back than about 16 million years ago to see where it was higher than 1,000, but then it was dinosaurs that had to deal with it and not humans. In the 30,000 years we've been around, the levels were much lower than today.

You can do your own research to find out what effect CO2 levels has on us. But Elon got it right - it is dangerous to our health and we're not even talking about it. The higher the level, the less our lungs are able to remove it from our blood and you end up with the effects Elon highlighted.

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by skarra

I think you completely missed the point. It's not sulphur, mercury, and all those other nasties that could severely impact our health - .

You were obviously not around during the 40s and 50s!

[Number 10 GI]

How many PPM of C02 in the atmosphere will cause all the breathing problems being cited? Provide a bonafide source for this info and not someone's opinion.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Anything renewable or green made from mining and fossil fuels. Agree we could cut that level but the world has to be on same page. We in United States have the highest standards in world , until rest of world meets our standard there nothing we can do except going down same old road.

Originally Posted by Two Bills

Many would dispute that statement, and not be wrong.

We could split hairs about the who has the best among relatively similar standards, but it is irrelevant. The problem is China and India.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

What happens if by some miracle we get to the Holy Grail of zero emissions and the climate continues to change?
.

What if? Let's give it a try and see! Or, we could sit on our thumbs and do nothing.