[Papa_lecki]

There have been many discussions here over the years saying golf is a dying sport.

There are also many discussions (active now) asking about driving ranges and additional executive courses in TV. An interesting data point is that off course golf (i.e.. simulators and TopGolf) is a top 10 sport in the US.

It seems to me, the one thing the developer mis read was the growth of golf, especially post COVID. Golf is not dying, exactly the opposite. It takes a long lead time to plan and develop the areas and insert any golf amenity.

Some data points

The sport had a direct economic impact of $102 billion in the United States in 2022 - an increase of 20% from 2016.

Golf has seen millions of new golfers.

• Nine straight years of two million beginners
• The last three years have seen three million beginners

Juniors are the fastest-growing cohort.

• 3.4 million juniors played in 2022
• 900,000 new juniors in the last three years

And golf is one of the most popular recreational sports in America.

• On-course golf ranks 5th with 25.7 million
• Off-course golf ranks 7th with 15.5 million

[It's Hot There]

& the point of your after-the-fact Google searches.

golf was on the decline from 07 to 17.........The Villages planning period.

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by It's Hot There

& the point of your after-the-fact Google searches.

golf was on the decline from 07 to 17.........The Villages planning period.

It's been shown many times there's plenty of available golf, just not at the popular times or for large groups.

[Papa_lecki]

Originally Posted by Altavia

It's been shown many times there's plenty of available golf, just not at the popular times or for large groups.

The Villages also has plenty of breakfast restaurants, but you only can get a reservation at 5PM.

The growth re-started in 2016/2017, pre COVID - 6 or 7 years ago, have we seen a pivot? (EDIT, fixed the typo)
I think the pitch and puts are a good thing. There are a lot of new championship and executive holes coming on line in the next year or two.

I get the business purpose of not opening courses until the population can support them financially (green fees for championships and amenity fees for executives). .

[TSO/ISPF]

Originally Posted by Altavia

It's been shown many times there's plenty of available golf, just not at the popular times or for large groups.

Do you have that chart for the state of Florida. How many rounds of golf by state over the years would be an interesting data point, especially by month of the year.

[Gpsma]

I believe stock market pros call that the dead cat bounce

[ThirdOfFive]

I think that golf, popularity (or not) notwithstanding, is definitely a niche sport; that niche being primarily Caucasians with ample time on their hands and money (sometimes, a lot of money) to throw at their hobby for things like green fees, satisfactory equipment and in many cases, lessons. Tiger Woods did a lot to change that, but IMO golf is still seen as a rich old white guy sport.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

The Villages also has plenty of breakfast restaurants, but you only can get a reservation at 5PM.

The growth re-started in 2026/2017, pre COVID - 6 or 7 years ago, have we seen a pivot?
I think the pitch and puts are a good thing. There are a lot of new championship and executive holes coming on line in the next year or two.

I get the business purpose of not opening courses until the population can support them financially (green fees for championships and amenity fees for executives). .

ahh...2026,,, must have been a good year. I can't remember any of it.

[MrFlorida]

Come back in the summer, no problems getting a T time then....

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Altavia

It's been shown many times there's plenty of available golf, just not at the popular times or for large groups.

There are some folks on here, I hardly ever agree with.

That said, the above is 100% accurate.

The Villages has more than sufficient golf for it's population. The problem seems to be the entitled attitude of golfers.

I play golf at least 5 times/week. I play the courses I want to play, when I want to play them (Championship only). I have never, ever had a problem booking a golf time, within 30 minutes of my desired time and never had to drop to 3rd on my list of course preference.

As noted, you can't expect to book a group of 20-30 players, during prime time, in primed season.

Most every private country club in the world, limits "guests" during prime time. Most every private country club, limits "group" bookings in prime time.

Having been in TV for 3 years and having spent 30+ years around golf clubs, both as a member and in management, it's perfectly clear to me, what the problem is in TV. "Entitlement" and "groups".

Groups are the biggest pain in the butt in the golf world. They play slow, they all have a habit of putting their slowest players in the last group and they drive Starters crazy, with switching around players/foursomes.

In my opinion, if you want to book a group with more than 1 foursome, you should be relegated to non-prime time during peak season. Before 9-10 am or after 2 pm. That's how it works in country clubs around the USA, why do Villagers think they're special and expect more than you can get in the real world.

Per capita, The Villages has more golf courses than any state in the USA. Per capita, it has more "holes" of golf, than the most prolific golf area in the USA (Naples area).

Golf Courses Per Capita - GolfBlogger Golf Blog

Just a moment...

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

There have been many discussions here over the years saying golf is a dying sport.

There are also many discussions (active now) asking about driving ranges and additional executive courses in TV. An interesting data point is that off course golf (i.e.. simulators and TopGolf) is a top 10 sport in the US.

It seems to me, the one thing the developer mis read was the growth of golf, especially post COVID. Golf is not dying, exactly the opposite. It takes a long lead time to plan and develop the areas and insert any golf amenity.

Some data points

The sport had a direct economic impact of $102 billion in the United States in 2022 - an increase of 20% from 2016.

Golf has seen millions of new golfers.

• Nine straight years of two million beginners
• The last three years have seen three million beginners

Juniors are the fastest-growing cohort.

• 3.4 million juniors played in 2022
• 900,000 new juniors in the last three years

And golf is one of the most popular recreational sports in America.

• On-course golf ranks 5th with 25.7 million
• Off-course golf ranks 7th with 15.5 million

Covid did make a difference. In another recent study Millennial's have become less interested in sports as opposed to the boomers. Love golf but in the short term, developer probably that golf demand was going to be low and would stay low. bet long term they are right.

[JoMar]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

I think that golf, popularity (or not) notwithstanding, is definitely a niche sport; that niche being primarily Caucasians with ample time on their hands and money (sometimes, a lot of money) to throw at their hobby for things like green fees, satisfactory equipment and in many cases, lessons. Tiger Woods did a lot to change that, but IMO golf is still seen as a rich old white guy sport.

So how would you catagorize basketball, baseball, tennis. I'm sure you can find a bin for them.

[JGibson]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

There are some folks on here, I hardly ever agree with.

That said, the above is 100% accurate.

The Villages has more than sufficient golf for it's population. The problem seems to be the entitled attitude of golfers.

I play golf at least 5 times/week. I play the courses I want to play, when I want to play them (Championship only). I have never, ever had a problem booking a golf time, within 30 minutes of my desired time and never had to drop to 3rd on my list of course preference.

As noted, you can't expect to book a group of 20-30 players, during prime time, in primed season.

Most every private country club in the world, limits "guests" during prime time. Most every private country club, limits "group" bookings in prime time.

Having been in TV for 3 years and having spent 30+ years around golf clubs, both as a member and in management, it's perfectly clear to me, what the problem is in TV. "Entitlement" and "groups".

Groups are the biggest pain in the butt in the golf world. They play slow, they all have a habit of putting their slowest players in the last group and they drive Starters crazy, with switching around players/foursomes.

In my opinion, if you want to book a group with more than 1 foursome, you should be relegated to non-prime time during peak season. Before 9-10 am or after 2 pm. That's how it works in country clubs around the USA, why do Villagers think they're special and expect more than you can get in the real world.

Per capita, The Villages has more golf courses than any state in the USA. Per capita, it has more "holes" of golf, than the most prolific golf area in the USA (Naples area).

Golf Courses Per Capita - GolfBlogger Golf Blog

Just a moment...

The issue isn't the Championship it's the executive courses.

The one that is supposed to be included in your ammenties. I don't think they're being entitled when they pay for it every month yet during the winter have such a hard time even getting tee times for a foursome.

As a solution oriented person I just go out as a single in Jan-Mar and resume my foursomes and clubs tee times come late March.

[justjim]

Originally Posted by JGibson

The issue isn't the Championship it's the executive courses.

The one that is supposed to be included in your ammenties. I don't think they're being entitled when they pay for it every month yet during the winter have such a hard time even getting tee times for a foursome.

As a solution oriented person I just go out as a single in Jan-Mar and resume my foursomes and clubs tee times come late March.

I agree tee times are a problem especially if you don’t know the “ends and outs” of the golf tee system. A single golfer can easily play four or five times a week on the executive courses during the winter months. Large groups are different. During winter months break up your large group into eight players (some four) and then by the number of times golfers have played. It takes a little more time but you can get most players on that way. For those that want to play more they can go out as singles or doubles.

[Gpsma]

Pickleball is growing, golf is dying.