[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I AGREE 150 % about that statement !!!!!!!!! Not only are we in a BUBBLE of conformity and single-mindedness on most issues - we are in an unsafe and extremely VULNERABLE bubble where we are the HAVES and surrounded by HAVE NOTS.
.........I see that this Applebees shooting as PROOF positive with respect to my theory expressed in the 1st paragraph about SAFETY and vulnerability. I honestly and firmly believe that TV Land needs new and innovative methods (and top-level thinking) to deal with the problem that OUR LOCAL SENIORS are VERY vulnerable to CRIME. Applebees was SHOT UP. A local restaurant was SHOT UP !!!!!!
.........The US murder rate is INCREASING. Does anyone really believe that this Applebee's incident will ONLY happen maybe once every TEN YEARS.........NO WAY !!!! Crime ( and incidentally hurricanes) is going to keep INCREASING right here in our little (FORMERLY SAFE) little chunk of paradise called The Villages.
..........Without more CRIME PREVENTING technology and solid well trained additional Police personnel the sign greeting Villages will have to be changed from "Friendliest Home Town" to "Active War Zone".
...........And that was a VERY good point that was brought up about the excessive consumption of alcohol which has been a historic building block of LA, lA LAND life from day one. Right now we have extremely high traffic congestion and when you add the combustible mix of excess alcohol worship - you get problems that video recordings and ADEQUATE Police and their PRESENCE can help avoid.
.........And if and when the "powers that be" add the "EVERYBODY PACKING", disaster in the making, provisions to the law .........WELL, baby, we are going to have a REAL SNITSHOW !!!!!

I think you have led a far too sheltered life!

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

When faced with absolutely ridiculous alternative possibilities, yeah, I'll reply like I did earlier... He came in "to have a piece of pie"? Really?

IIRC, the article (all we have to go on, right?) stated that he got into a confrontation once inside. So, your claim of "being a black man and entering through a side door that someone opened for you is a sure way to get yourself killed", is just silly

Do you know the color of the man who shot him? Or the color of the people who were inside the Applebees? Or the color of the people who got into the altercation outside?

No? Then why should the color of the man who was shot matter?

Unless, of course, one is trying to make this a racial issue...

No, I only know the color and gender of the individual in the picture who was identified as the person who was shot. No other identifying information was given and therefore no other information was included in my post. (interesting that the shooter is identified as "patron" and "customer" but no he/she pronouns)

The color of the man who was shot only matters because it was available. Hopefully, this is not a racial issue but unfortunately it often is.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

No, I only know the color and gender of the individual in the picture who was identified as the person who was shot. No other identifying information was given and therefore no other information was included in my post. (interesting that the shooter is identified as "patron" and "customer" but no he/she pronouns)

The color of the man who was shot only matters because it was available. Hopefully, this is not a racial issue but unfortunately it often is.

The man who shot the slain man could also be African-American, Asian-American, Native American, etc. We have little facts to go with. There are many people of various ethnic groups in towns surrounding the Villages.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

The man who shot the slain man could also be African-American, Asian-American, Native American, etc. We have little facts to go with. There are many people of various ethnic groups in towns surrounding the Villages.

Absolutely. Was the shooter identified as a man? (EDIT: I just found one article that identified the shooter as a man) As I wrote, it is interesting that pronouns were avoided in the articles I read. It could very well have been a woman with the carry permit.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by PugMom

people had said the same things while the cops were looking for that guy who knifed/shot those college students. in the end we ended up reading about how the cops were on his tail for sometime, & an arrest was coming, --it was just that the press didnt know about it.

OK. That was one incident that happened in ANOTHER state where maybe there IS NOT an upcoming vote on COWBOY Frontier ......type carry. I just have my suspicions about OUR state. I hope that I am proven wrong!
......Obviously, I am saddened, bewildered, confused, perplexed, and etc - by the prospects of every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Harriet being allowed to open carry. And where is the VOTE on this.......I believe it IS something that the majority of Floridians DO NOT, DO NOT WANT. And that is what the SURVEYS are saying, not just myself.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

OK. That was one incident that happened in ANOTHER state where maybe there IS NOT an upcoming vote on COWBOY Frontier ......type carry. I just have my suspicions about OUR state. I hope that I am proven wrong!
......Obviously, I am saddened, bewildered, confused, perplexed, and etc - by the prospects of every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Harriet being allowed to open carry. And where is the VOTE on this.......I believe it IS something that the majority of Floridians DO NOT, DO NOT WANT. And that is what the SURVEYS are saying, not just myself.

For the umpteenth time...

NO ONE IS PROPOSING OPEN CARRY!!! There is currently NO SUCH LAW being proposed...

So please, feel free to continue to be "saddened, bewildered, confused, and perplexed", about whatever "horrible thing" that is currently on your radar. But this is simply not a valid concern...

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

I believe what the above refers to is the permitless or “Constitutional Carry” bill that is scheduled to be debated by the full Florida legislature soon; it has already cleared all committee hurdles and both the House and the Senate bills have been reconciled so that the language is the same. However I am not aware that the bill, if passed, allows open carry. Open carry is already illegal in Florida and as far as I know is likely to remain so.

In any case, Constitutional carry is NOT unlimited, even if passed. If you are prohibited from legally owning a gun, then carrying one in public is a felony, and as I understand the legislation if a law enforcement officer knows you are carrying he or she has the right to ask you to produce identification.

I very much doubt that constitutional carry will see much of an increase in who is carrying and who is not. Let’s face it, the criminals among us already are, and as far as the rest of we law-abiding folk go, those who are anti-carry are not about to buy a gun and start packing, just because they can.

I lived in AZ and was washing my clothes in a commercial laundry and some ugly-looking clown came in to do his wash and he was PACKING HEAT outside his clothing. That was commonplace for years now. What more can I say - that IS the way Florida is going. And the majority of Floridians SURVEYED said NO WAY JOSE !!!!
......It is going to be a real SNIT SHOW......coming to an area near you. And those in the surrounding areas to The Villages will be CARRYING SERIOUS HEAT. Just be forewarned!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

At this point, there are at least two scenarios.

In the first scenario, the person that was killed was carrying a gun and was threatening people in the restaurant putting them at fear for their lives and was killed.

The other possibility is that the person that was killed was totally innocent and was just trying to get inside to be safe. He had no weapon and was no threat to anyone. However, the shooter mistakenly thought that he was a threat and shot him.

Of those two, I hope it is the first one. That is because you would have a criminal being killed. I hope it is not the second scenario because in that case, an innocent person was killed and the shooter will most likely be tried and convicted.

In case one, a criminal is dead. In case two, an innocent person is dead and a person that probably had no criminal intentions will have his life destroyed.

That is a GOOD summation of the situation.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

I think you have led a far too sheltered life!

Actually, that is untrue. I have done many things and been many places where most people would be frightened to go. Just the opposite!

[Number 10 GI]

I believe Florida was one of the first states that allowed for state citizens to carry concealed after passing a background check and successfully completing a licensing test. All the doom sayers were predicting death, destruction, mayhem and Hollywood type gunfights in the streets. Never happened.

In Tennessee open carry was approved with a carry license and again predictions of death and disaster. Never happened. Recently Tennessee passed into law that a citizen that who wasn't prohibited from possessing a firearm could carry without a permit. Again it was predicted that death and mayhem would follow. Hasn't happened yet.

In every state that passed laws for concealed carry have had the same Chicken Littles screaming about death and disaster resulting from the law. Hasn't happened.

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

I believe Florida was one of the first states that allowed for state citizens to carry concealed after passing a background check and successfully completing a licensing test. All the doom sayers were predicting death, destruction, mayhem and Hollywood type gunfights in the streets. Never happened.

In Tennessee open carry was approved with a carry license and again predictions of death and disaster. Never happened. Recently Tennessee passed into law that a citizen that who wasn't prohibited from possessing a firearm could carry without a permit. Again it was predicted that death and mayhem would follow. Hasn't happened yet.

In every state that passed laws for concealed carry have had the same Chicken Littles screaming about death and disaster resulting from the law. Hasn't happened.

You have to remember that some people are ruled by their emotions and not by facts. The ones with an agenda who are ruled by those emotions are the most dangerous.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I lived in AZ and was washing my clothes in a commercial laundry and some ugly-looking clown came in to do his wash and he was PACKING HEAT outside his clothing. That was commonplace for years now. What more can I say - that IS the way Florida is going. And the majority of Floridians SURVEYED said NO WAY JOSIE !!!!
......It is going to be a real SNIT SHOW......coming to an area near you. And those in the surrounding areas to The Villages will be CARRYING SERIOUS HEAT. Just be forewarned!

Funny how attitudes often completely contradict reality.

Minnesota, my state of origin, has some pretty draconian laws but permit-to-carry is not one of those situations. It was open carry in Minnesota from the getgo, over 20 years ago now. Some few did carry openly. I never did: I figured that the only person who needed to know I was carrying was me, and in any case the last thing I wanted to happen was to be in a grocery store one day and have some twentysomething mother-of-two dissolving into a gibbering puddle of drool at the sight of my LC9. If you are taught that guns are the enemy, such an occurrence would not be unexpected.

But perception is one thing. Reality is another. And it is interesting to gauge the reactions of those who deal with the reality of guns—and the law—on a daily basis. Some years back (2016, maybe?) I attended a 2nd Amendment rally held on the lawn of the Minnesota State Capitol building in St. Paul. A crowd of maybe 3,000, there to talk, look at exhibits and show their support for the 2nd Amendment. Most of us were carrying, maybe a quarter of the crowd carrying openly. There were some pretty high-powered political types speaking as well; a former member of Congress, a Minnesota State Senator and the House Minority Party leader, Republican Party chairperson, etc. There was law enforcement there as well; five officers in all. Four were Minnesota State Highway Patrol officers deployed on the sidewalks ringing the rally, but facing AWAY from the crowd on the lookout for anti-gun demonstrators (who never came). The fifth, a uniformed St. Paul cop, was with the crowd at the rally, looking at exhibits, chatting with the other attendees and having just as good a time as any of the rest of us.

I was particularly struck by this. A crowd of maybe 3,000 civilian rally attendees with maybe 2,000 if not more firearms both carried openly and concealed, well-known dignitaries in attendance—and the focus of the law was not on that at all but on possible problems caused by the ANTI-gun types! That said a lot: probably a whole lot more than the anti-gun people would ever want to hear.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Funny how attitudes often completely contradict reality.

Minnesota, my state of origin, has some pretty draconian laws but permit-to-carry is not one of those situations. It was open carry in Minnesota from the getgo, over 20 years ago now. Some few did carry openly. I never did: I figured that the only person who needed to know I was carrying was me, and in any case the last thing I wanted to happen was to be in a grocery store one day and have some twentysomething mother-of-two dissolving into a gibbering puddle of drool at the sight of my LC9. If you are taught that guns are the enemy, such an occurrence would not be unexpected.

But perception is one thing. Reality is another. And it is interesting to gauge the reactions of those who deal with the reality of guns—and the law—on a daily basis. Some years back (2016, maybe?) I attended a 2nd Amendment rally held on the lawn of the Minnesota State Capitol building in St. Paul. A crowd of maybe 3,000, there to talk, look at exhibits and show their support for the 2nd Amendment. Most of us were carrying, maybe a quarter of the crowd carrying openly. There were some pretty high-powered political types speaking as well; a former member of Congress, a Minnesota State Senator and the House Minority Party leader, Republican Party chairperson, etc. There was law enforcement there as well; five officers in all. Four were Minnesota State Highway Patrol officers deployed on the sidewalks ringing the rally, but facing AWAY from the crowd on the lookout for anti-gun demonstrators (who never came). The fifth, a uniformed St. Paul cop, was with the crowd at the rally, looking at exhibits, chatting with the other attendees and having just as good a time as any of the rest of us.

I was particularly struck by this. A crowd of maybe 3,000 civilian rally attendees with maybe 2,000 if not more firearms both carried openly and concealed, well-known dignitaries in attendance—and the focus of the law was not on that at all but on possible problems caused by the ANTI-gun types! That said a lot: probably a whole lot more than the anti-gun people would ever want to hear.

Well, that is a good and informative post about a one-day experience which, I believe was intended as an example of how peaceful a bunch of LIKE-MINDED (literally brothers-in-arms) individuals can be. Maybe they went home and beat their wives afterward, I don't know.
.........I do know that Minnesota 20 years ago is NOT the same as, or equal to, Florida today. That would be the famous apples and grapefruits comparison. Currently, the whole US has had ever-increasing murders and other violent crimes in recent years. And several northern visitors to The Villages (aka La, La Land) have commented that when they watch the Orlando nightly TV news, they say that it sounds like there are 3 NEW murders each and every night.
...........Anyhooo, I seriously doubt that this Applebee incident is a once in 5-year thing in La, La, Land. I imagine that incidents like that will be happening at a rate of about once every 5 MONTHS in our local area SOON !

[Djean1981]

Originally Posted by RedChariot

This is SUPPOSED to be a retirement community! This is not what I envisioned when moving here 11 years ago. The direction this community is taking saddens me.

It's not a retirement community.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Djean1981

It's not a retirement community.

The Villages is not a retirement community? That would be news to The Villages:

The Villages is a collection of quaint retirement neighborhoods...