[Blueblaze]

Has anybody ever wondered why there are all those gopher tortoise "preserves" on the North side? It's really odd when you think about it. Why would you regularly mow a wildlife sanctuary, especially one dedicated to creatures that live on the ground? Are gopher tortoises even on the endangered list? There's another one dedicated to the "Burrowing Owl", which actually makes its nest IN the ground -- and yet, it too, is regularly mowed.

Is the Gopher Tortoise or Burrowing Owl endangered? No, but they are considered "threatened in Florida", which simply means their habitat is being replaced by human development. So, is a regularly-mowed field the natural habitat for gopher tortoises or burrowing owls? No, their habitat is the oak and pine forests that were cut down to build The Villages. In fact, both species are about as "threatened" as the forest they live in, and while Florida may have fewer wild forests, there is actually more forest land in North America today than there was when Columbus discovered it. So it's hard to imagine what is being conserved by placing a few tortoises or owls in a mowed field forbidden to residents. The "preserve" on Belle Meade, for instance, is so over-crowded that the tortoises regularly burrow under the fence and are found in the adjacent neighborhood, or crushed on Belle Meade. It's no mystery why they try to escape -- the mystery is what so many tortoises find to eat there. They are herbivores. So we're preserving them by forcing them to graze on mowed Bermuda grass? It seems a little cruel.

There are resident activities that could easily use those spaces without harming any tortoises -- certainly not as much as mowing them! I heard that the model airplane club was recently kicked out of the Polo Grounds after 15 years, because a 2 pound electric plane crashed 20ft from a polo horse. Meanwhile, there is a 50 acre gopher tortoise preserve just north of the Polo Grounds. Why weren't they flying there? How much damage can an electric model airplane do, just flying over a mowed field, even if someone actually crashed into a tortoise every 15 years? They live in the ground, for crying out loud! They have a hard shell! They don't even come out of their burrows until the afternoon!

And what harm would it do if some people chose to do their walking around a field full of tortoises, instead of the cart lane of a busy street? Maybe if we let people connect with the tortoises and get interested in preserving them, they'd get fed something a little closer to their natural diet than bermuda grass, once in a while!

It's just weird. I understand that there is land that can't be developed for some reason, and maybe the developer gets a tax break or something for those vacant lots, if he calls them a "preserve". But has anybody ever checked to see if they'd actually lose that benefit if the residents got to use them in limited ways as well? The Everglades is a preserve, too. But I can still drive through it, or even hunt snakes and alligators in it, with the proper permit!

[4$ALE]

Originally Posted by Blueblaze

Has anybody ever wondered why there are all those gopher tortoise "preserves" on the North side? It's really odd when you think about it. Why would you regularly mow a wildlife sanctuary, especially one dedicated to creatures that live on the ground? Are gopher tortoises even on the endangered list? There's another one dedicated to the "Burrowing Owl", which actually makes its nest IN the ground -- and yet, it too, is regularly mowed.

Is the Gopher Tortoise or Burrowing Owl endangered? No, but they are considered "threatened in Florida", which simply means their habitat is being replaced by human development. So, is a regularly-mowed field the natural habitat for gopher tortoises or burrowing owls? No, their habitat is the oak and pine forests that were cut down to build The Villages. In fact, both species are about as "threatened" as the forest they live in, and while Florida may have fewer wild forests, there is actually more forest land in North America today than there was when Columbus discovered it. So it's hard to imagine what is being conserved by placing a few tortoises or owls in a mowed field forbidden to residents. The "preserve" on Belle Meade, for instance, is so over-crowded that the tortoises regularly burrow under the fence and are found in the adjacent neighborhood, or crushed on Belle Meade. It's no mystery why they try to escape -- the mystery is what so many tortoises find to eat there. They are herbivores. So we're preserving them by forcing them to graze on mowed Bermuda grass? It seems a little cruel.

There are resident activities that could easily use those spaces without harming any tortoises -- certainly not as much as mowing them! I heard that the model airplane club was recently kicked out of the Polo Grounds after 15 years, because a 2 pound electric plane crashed 20ft from a polo horse. Meanwhile, there is a 50 acre gopher tortoise preserve just north of the Polo Grounds. Why weren't they flying there? How much damage can an electric model airplane do, just flying over a mowed field, even if someone actually crashed into a tortoise every 15 years? They live in the ground, for crying out loud! They have a hard shell! They don't even come out of their burrows until the afternoon!

And what harm would it do if some people chose to do their walking around a field full of tortoises, instead of the cart lane of a busy street? Maybe if we let people connect with the tortoises and get interested in preserving them, they'd get fed something a little closer to their natural diet than bermuda grass, once in a while!

It's just weird. I understand that there is land that can't be developed for some reason, and maybe the developer gets a tax break or something for those vacant lots, if he calls them a "preserve". But has anybody ever checked to see if they'd actually lose that benefit if the residents got to use them in limited ways as well? The Everglades is a preserve, too. But I can still drive through it, or even hunt snakes and alligators in it, with the proper permit!

You do know that piece of property is owned by District 2 ..... NOT THE DEVELOPER, RIGHT?


Gopher Tortoise Rules and Regulations | FWC

[Bogie Shooter]

Maybe attend a district meeting and ask all those questions.

[kansasr]

Originally Posted by 4$ALE

You do know that piece of property is owned by District 2 ..... NOT THE DEVELOPER, RIGHT?


Gopher Tortoise Rules and Regulations | FWC

Thank you for actually presenting facts in one of these discussions!

[Marathon Man]

Originally Posted by Blueblaze

Has anybody ever wondered why there are all those gopher tortoise "preserves" on the North side? It's really odd when you think about it. Why would you regularly mow a wildlife sanctuary, especially one dedicated to creatures that live on the ground? Are gopher tortoises even on the endangered list? There's another one dedicated to the "Burrowing Owl", which actually makes its nest IN the ground -- and yet, it too, is regularly mowed.

Is the Gopher Tortoise or Burrowing Owl endangered? No, but they are considered "threatened in Florida", which simply means their habitat is being replaced by human development. So, is a regularly-mowed field the natural habitat for gopher tortoises or burrowing owls? No, their habitat is the oak and pine forests that were cut down to build The Villages. In fact, both species are about as "threatened" as the forest they live in, and while Florida may have fewer wild forests, there is actually more forest land in North America today than there was when Columbus discovered it. So it's hard to imagine what is being conserved by placing a few tortoises or owls in a mowed field forbidden to residents. The "preserve" on Belle Meade, for instance, is so over-crowded that the tortoises regularly burrow under the fence and are found in the adjacent neighborhood, or crushed on Belle Meade. It's no mystery why they try to escape -- the mystery is what so many tortoises find to eat there. They are herbivores. So we're preserving them by forcing them to graze on mowed Bermuda grass? It seems a little cruel.

There are resident activities that could easily use those spaces without harming any tortoises -- certainly not as much as mowing them! I heard that the model airplane club was recently kicked out of the Polo Grounds after 15 years, because a 2 pound electric plane crashed 20ft from a polo horse. Meanwhile, there is a 50 acre gopher tortoise preserve just north of the Polo Grounds. Why weren't they flying there? How much damage can an electric model airplane do, just flying over a mowed field, even if someone actually crashed into a tortoise every 15 years? They live in the ground, for crying out loud! They have a hard shell! They don't even come out of their burrows until the afternoon!

And what harm would it do if some people chose to do their walking around a field full of tortoises, instead of the cart lane of a busy street? Maybe if we let people connect with the tortoises and get interested in preserving them, they'd get fed something a little closer to their natural diet than bermuda grass, once in a while!

It's just weird. I understand that there is land that can't be developed for some reason, and maybe the developer gets a tax break or something for those vacant lots, if he calls them a "preserve". But has anybody ever checked to see if they'd actually lose that benefit if the residents got to use them in limited ways as well? The Everglades is a preserve, too. But I can still drive through it, or even hunt snakes and alligators in it, with the proper permit!

OK. Now that one made me laugh.

[tophcfa]

They are a way to utilize land under power lines, that isn’t suitable for building homes but can be used to satisfy conservation requirements.

[4$ALE]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

They are a way to utilize land under power lines, that isn’t suitable for building homes but can be used to satisfy conservation requirements.

That may be true..... but I don't recall any preserves under power lines. There are several golf courses under power lines. The Tortoise preserve in question looks like a prime piece of real estate based on what is across BV from it.

[Blueblaze]

I don't think who owns them is all that relevant. I just think it's really weird that we have these grassland "preserves" for woodland creatures, that don't ordinarily live on the plains or eat grass. And it's really weird that these poor exiled woodland creatures that live in the ground are stuck in a "preserve" that gets mowed regularly. It just doesn't make much logical sense.

It's a lot of land that isn't really preserving anything, that could be easily used for other low-impact activities without bothering the "protected" creatures.

But, on the bright side, I was reading that black snakes use gopher tortoise holes to hatch their young, which probably explains why there are so many black snakes in my adjacent neighborhood. I'd much rather have snakes than palm rats!

[Cliff Fr]

Originally Posted by Blueblaze

I don't think who owns them is all that relevant. I just think it's really weird that we have these grassland "preserves" for woodland creatures, that don't ordinarily live on the plains or eat grass. And it's really weird that these poor exiled woodland creatures that live in the ground are stuck in a "preserve" that gets mowed regularly. It just doesn't make much logical sense.

It's a lot of land that isn't really preserving anything, that could be easily used for other low-impact activities without bothering the "protected" creatures.

But, on the bright side, I was reading that black snakes use gopher tortoise holes to hatch their young, which probably explains why there are so many black snakes in my adjacent neighborhood. I'd much rather have snakes than palm rats!

Gopher tortoises are considered a key stone species because other species such as the black snake you mentioned use their burrows

[Blueblaze]

Originally Posted by Cliff Fr

Gopher tortoises are considered a key stone species because other species such as the black snake you mentioned use their burrows

Now we're getting somewhere! So THAT'S the reason they captured a bunch of them and stuck them in a little prisons all over of the North side! Our kindly benefactors were just encouraging snakes to breed, in order control the rat population! It all makes sense, now. In fact, I've seen foxes using the burrows, too, and even though foxes are a key repository for rabies, they also eat rats!

I knew there had to be a good reason for the tortoise torment! They're always thinking of us, aren't they!

[Ponygirl]

I own property that abutts the preserve and like it the way it is. I bought the property because of the beauty of the preserve

Dont need people disturbing it or destroying the beauty Lots and lots of other areas for people to fly airplanes or do other things

BTW there is a concern abt the drone that came down next to a polo pony. Didn’t injury the horse but could have caused the horse to bolt and injury other riders and horses

[jacksonla]

Originally Posted by 4$ALE

That may be true..... but I don't recall any preserves under power lines. There are several golf courses under power lines. The Tortoise preserve in question looks like a prime piece of real estate based on what is across BV from it.

Our home backs onto a gopher turtle preserve (Chaparral Drive) with high power lines. A coyote hid her three pups in a turtle nest this spring and we enjoyed watching the pups play through our binoculars. Bald eagles nest nearby and hunt for prey in the foot high grasses. A wild turkey can be seen feeding in the grasses most days. Many butterflies, birds, rabbits and squirrels live here also. They feel safe because only occasionally does a human being enter this beautiful preserve.

[Rodneysblue]

There in is the rub. He wants to fly his plane.

[airstreamingypsy]

I have a Gopher Tortoise living under my front porch, he's been here about 2 years. My lawn is mowed, he grazes, where it's mowed. I use no poisons in the yard because he eats here.

[Blueblaze]

Originally Posted by jacksonla

Our home backs onto a gopher turtle preserve (Chaparral Drive) with high power lines. A coyote hid her three pups in a turtle nest this spring and we enjoyed watching the pups play through our binoculars. Bald eagles nest nearby and hunt for prey in the foot high grasses. A wild turkey can be seen feeding in the grasses most days. Many butterflies, birds, rabbits and squirrels live here also. They feel safe because only occasionally does a human being enter this beautiful preserve.

Well, that would make sense if the grass was really a foot high, like you say. But it's not, in any of the preserves I have seen. It's mowed regularly -- which gives the lie the notion that it's a "preserve". And they are NOT pretty. There are just grassy plains interrupted by a tortoise mound and a red flag, every 10 yards or so.

Yes, my property is a block from a "preserve", too, and I love the fact that there is a big tract of undeveloped land near me. I just pity the poor creatures who are imprisoned there in order to call it a "preserve". And I wish it wasn't so ugly.

If it's really a preserve, it should remain unmowed, and include a few trees and natural food sources for the inmates. In fact, there should be a program to check on the tortoises and insure that they're getting a proper diet in their little prison, so maybe they won't be so desperate to escape.

On the other hand, if it's just a tax dodge, my question is, why can't the tax dodge be "preserved", while also allowing low-impact use of the land, the same way the everglades is preserved? I take a walk every day. It would be nice to walk around the perimeter of a pretty nature preserve, instead of facing traffic in the golf cart lane of a busy street like Belle Meade.

And just one more point. Did you notice how every single responder found something to oppose in my pointing out the absurdity of mowing a "preserve"? I've noticed that every time someone suggests an improvement or problem in our community, it is always met with vociferous resistance on this forum. Does an old mind have to be a closed mind?