[jrref]

Originally Posted by metoo21

I spoke to Majic Stairs when I was looking and they didn't know anything about fireproofing. Turns out that it didn't matter as my attic construction would not have allowed the installation once I really looked at the videos. The stairs I have are Husky 800. They have an option for a fire resistant door which I have - proven by the label in my other post. I was fortunate to purchase it from a homeowner here that had it replaced with Majic Stairs.

That was the first installation of magic stairs I had seen in person. The plywood/stairs were so bowed when the unit was closed that there was a large gap between the plywood and the ceiling.

Husky 800 stairs are manufactured in Memphis, TN. I know they have distributors but you'd have to measure your opening and call them to see if there was a local one.

I called Majic stairs yesterday and asked about fire rating and after a minute of silence, they said they can spray a special fire retardant coating on the stairs if I wanted. So that said, Majic stairs is installing thousands of stairs here in the Villages. If fire rated stairs were required I would think there would be an issue by now.

[jrref]

Originally Posted by Janie123

Florida building code (which differs state to state) requires 20 minute rating (just enough to get out of the house), 1/2” drywall on all walls and doors in the garage that is attached to the house. Attic stairs (without vent holes retro fitted into them) are allowed as long as it too provides the 20 minute requirement. Doors need to be solid core, not a standard residential hollow core door. Self-closing is not a requirement in FL. The 20 minute goes to 1 hr if there is a direct bedroom above or attached to the garage. No doors into an attached bedroom either. No venting from garage into attic is allowed however, a vent from garage to the outside thru the roof is allowed or the garage is separated from the house by an attic wall. Also, all penetrations (ducts and pipes) must be sealed with material that is also fire retardent.

This seems to be the best information on the topic.

So a couple of thoughts:
1) Many new homes come with a piece of sheetrock or plywood suspended by molding in the garage without an attic ladder. In case of a fire, the wood molding would burn in a couple of minutes and that sheetrock or plywood would fall to the floor leaving a huge opening for the fire to travel.

2) Although I wasn't able to find any "local" information on building code specifically for attic stairs, the code does specify fire ratings for the walls, ceiling and doors. The attic stairs should be considered part of the ceiling structure and therefore should have some fire rating.

3) Yesterday I looked at several of my neighbors garages and none had fire rated attic stairs. As I mentioned in a previous post, Majic stairs, for example, installs thousands of stairs in the Villages as does many other companies and they don't have a Fire Rated product. So, from observation, most people in the Villages probably don't have or even know anything about fire rated attic stairs. I do want to mention that the Majic Lift that Majic stairs installs is not fire rated but the cover is steel so that's not going to burn which is good.

4) After investigating, as mentioned, Fako makes a fire rated attic stairs that you can get at Home Depot for $805 just for the stairs. It installes just like regular attic stairs but it has rock wool to put around the gap where you install the molding and has a special gasket that will expand in the event of a fire. Although there is nothing special about the install, the stairs weighs about 100 lbs so it's a three person job to install.

I guess it's time for someone to start a business of installing fire rated attic stairs here in the Villages? The problem is Villagers won't spend the money thinking that nothing is going to happen to them but what scares me is if you do have a fire, will your insurance company pay if they find an attic stair violation? Is it worth the cost to install one of these stairs to avoid gambling that you will have a problem with the insurance company and or play with the safety of you and your family? Especially with all the electric and hybrid electric cars people are buying these days along with battery powered golf carts. Even a gas golf cart can catch on fire as we have seen at some of the squares recently.

Hope this was interesting. I'll let you know what I do. If I can get two of my neighbors to help me lift the stairs to install it or if I can find a pro installer who will install it at a "normal" rate then I'll probably change out my old junk attic stairs for a nice fire rated one.

[metoo21]

Regarding your statement "So, from observation, most people in the Villages probably don't have or even know anything about fire rated attic stairs." you are most likely correct. It is the buyer's responsibility to know what they are purchasing.

And do you think if a fire starts in the garage and something isn't to code that insurance will still pay to rebuild?? I think they always look for an out.

Great post jrref. Hopefully it will help others.

[jrref]

Originally Posted by metoo21

Regarding your statement "So, from observation, most people in the Villages probably don't have or even know anything about fire rated attic stairs." you are most likely correct. It is the buyer's responsibility to know what they are purchasing.

And do you think if a fire starts in the garage and something isn't to code that insurance will still pay to rebuild?? I think they always look for an out.

Great post jrref. Hopefully it will help others.

Thanks for the feedback. Yes that is exactly the problem. The insurance company will always be looking for something to get out of paying or paying the full amount. Also, as mentioned, It's not very common to have a garage fire but with all the electric and electric hybrid and golf carts, it's more probable that it could happen so it's best to do the right thing and install the right product. These stairs are very well built so it's a "once and done" project.

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by metoo21

Regarding your statement "So, from observation, most people in the Villages probably don't have or even know anything about fire rated attic stairs." you are most likely correct. It is the buyer's responsibility to know what they are purchasing.

And do you think if a fire starts in the garage and something isn't to code that insurance will still pay to rebuild?? I think they always look for an out.

Great post jrref. Hopefully it will help others.

I use a Little Giant collapable step ladder for attic access and keep the existing drywall cover.

It more sturdy than the low cost attic stairs, doesn't reduce the opening size and can be positioned to ease storing larger items.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Altavia

I use a Little Giant collapable step ladder for attic access and keep the existing drywall cover.

It more sturdy than the low cost attic stairs, doesn't reduce the opening size and can be positioned to ease storing larger items.

I agree. I don't store anything in the attic. If it needs to be stored, it needs to be thrown out. But, if you need to get into the attic, why not just buy a good ladder?

[jrref]

Originally Posted by Altavia

I use a Little Giant collapable step ladder for attic access and keep the existing drywall cover.

It more sturdy than the low cost attic stairs, doesn't reduce the opening size and can be positioned to ease storing larger items.

Just remember if the sheetrock is held up by the wood molding, if you ever have a fire, that wood will burn within a couple of minutes and the sheetrock will fall from the ceiling leaving a huge hole for the fire and smoke to go through your attic to the rest of your house.

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by jrref

Just remember if the sheetrock is held up by the wood molding, if you ever have a fire, that wood will burn within a couple of minutes and the sheetrock will fall from the ceiling leaving a huge hole for the fire and smoke to go through your attic to the rest of your house.

Mine is framed similar to the entry door. Trim is on top of the framing around the opening.

Wood frames and trim around doors and windows are excluded from the fire barrier requirement.

So not an issue for insurance.
...

[jrref]

I found this article which should help better understand the building code in Florida and where the 20 minute fire rating came from.

>>>>
But the way it is actually stated in the Residential Edition of the Florida Building Code is a “separation” between dwelling and garage, and as “not less than 1/2-inch gypsum board or equivalent. The International Residential Code (IRC) is similar.

Most homes have a 1/2” drywall panel installed in the attic access opening, which is fine. But when you put something else in the opening, it must be equivalent to 1/2” drywall, which has roughly a 20-minute fire resistance. The 1/4” plywood panel at most attic ladders does not meet that standard.
>>>>

So if you make any hole in your garage ceiling, if there is no living space above it, you need to fill the hole with 1/2" drywall or anything that has an equivalent 20-minute fire resistance. If there is living space above then you need 5/8" TypeX sheetrock and a 1hr fire resistance rating which is significantly more strigent is needed. The idea is to allow enough time to exit the residence in case of a fire. The insurance aspect is secondary.

The link to the article is here ->Why are most pull-down attic ladders not approved by building code for installation in a garage?

[keepsake]

"Once the framing is complete, just apply 5/8inch fire-rated drywall then mud and tape the joints."

Really !! How about apply drywall and you're done.

[jrref]

Update: My final decision was to replace my old warped attic stairs with the fire rated Fakro LWF stairs which I purchased from Home Depot. Although the building code requires 20 minute burn-through rating, these stairs have a 30 minute rating. The stairs install just like any other attic stairs only the depth of the frame is larger because of the triple gasket, fire rated door and the insulation. The unit is very well made and very sturdy. I installed it with the help of 4 of my neighbors who helped lift the stairs into the ceiling while I fastened the unit from the attic. After everything is square and level, the instructions clearly tell you were to fasten the unit. After that, to meet the fire rating you need to install some rock wool insulation which is fire proof, in the gap between the frame and the rough opening and then use 3M fire block caulk or equivalent top and bottom of that same opening. Then install the trim and you are done. The fire block caulk is important becasue there is no need for a fire rated door if you have an opening around it directly to the attic. The idea is to keep smoke and flames from entering into your attic in case of a fire. The wood trim is not going to do that. If you install this yourself or have someone do it for you, make sure the hinge side of the frame is flush against the header in the rough opening for maximum strength. You can shim the other three sides when fastening the frame to the joists and header. Also, make sure you use construction rated screws or lag bolts and NOT wood or deck screws. Wood and deck screws don't have the same sheer strength as construction screws or lag bolts which is especially important on the hinge side of the stairs. I looked at many Youtube videos of attic stair inspections and missing fasteners and incorrect screws are the most common mistakes which eventually lead to failure of the stairs. As a final installation comment, most modern wood stairs have plastic feet for the bottom of the ladder where it rests on the ground which gives you the correct angle to the floor. So all you need to do is get the measurement of the last ladder segment to the floor and make a straight cut then install the plastic feet for the perfect fit. No more trying to calculate the correct angled cut. On the Fakro stairs there is also an adjustment bolt where you can adjust the ladders angle if you cut the feet slightly short or long. This is a premium attic stairs where everything is well thought out and engineered properly.

At the end of the day, the Fakro fire rated attic stairs is not cheap but you can't put a price on safety and this is a "once and done" project. Also, if you sell your home at some point, you won't be called out on the attic stairs on inspection. For example, the Majic stairs and other units like it cost around $3,500 installed. These are great stairs but we don't have the room to install these in our home. We have the Majic Lift to cart items in and out of the attic and the Fakro stairs just to go in and out of the attic. No carrying stuff up and down any stairs.

As a final note to this saga, I did find Fire Retardant Paint. It's made by Insul-X and you can purchase it at Ace Hardware. It's fire rated for 30 minutes and from what I understand you can paint it on any wood, pre-painted or not, and when flame hits it, the paint creates an intumescent film increasing the time it takes for the wood to burn. The label also says you can paint over it and not effect it's fire retardant properties so no need to color match the paint. It's also water based and colored white. All this said, if you have a good attic stairs that fits properly, in order to meet the Florida building code you could paint the outside of your attic stairs with this fire retardant paint BUT, you need to make sure you have a good door gasket and not just plywood butting up against the frame to keept the smoke and flames from entering the attic. If you don't have a gasket, one thing you could do is purchase self stick gasket that's made for a BBQ and has a high temperature rating and won't burn. Amazon sells this.

Sorry for the long response but I hope all this information helps you make a better informed decision when thinking about attic stairs.

[Altavia]

Awesome work Jrref - thanks for sharing the details!

[lmk2570]

Jrref, So grateful that you give so much detail on this topic! The notes from your update are great- we are going to attempt this for our fix(fire retardant paint, and gaskets) Though you may see lots of plywood in garage ceilings, it is not up to code- - we were told about the fire issue when the company installed our attic stairs, but it was during installation, and not much we could do at the time. Sure enough, we are selling the house and the only thing that came back on the inspection? The plywood attic pull down door needs to be addressed because of the fire concern.