[gmcneill]

We have a mortgage with Citizen’s First Wholesale Mortgage (CFWM). That mortgage will be satisfied with the sale of our home next month.

We started the mortgage loan process for our new Villages home this past January. At the time, we asked our loan officer if CFWM would match local lender’s rates, points, and closing costs. He confirmed yes.

Two weeks ago our loan officer contacted us to tell us that rates had dropped. Consequently, we began the formal mortgage loan process. We again asked our loan officer if CFWM would match local lender’s rates, points, and closing costs. He again confirmed yes.

This past week, I advised our loan officer that four local lenders had publicized rates lower than the CFWM rate he quoted to us (3.50% vs 3.75% all with no points) and considerably lower closing costs. He stated that his manager would require us to provide a written “apples-to-apples” closing cost estimate sheet before CFWM would consider the match. That made sense to me (but I was concerned about his use of the word “consider”) so I provided him with the first closing cost estimate sheet that I received.

The next day the loan officer emailed me back the manager’s response: CFWM would lower the loan rate to 3.625%, with no points, and reduce their closing costs by $1100. I replied that it’s a start, but not a match. I told the loan officer to tell the manager that I expected the match as I was told I would receive.

A short time after receiving my email, the loan officer emailed me the manager’s response: CFWM would give me the 3.5% rate but that they would have to charge me an additional .625 points to do so. (have to? Really?) And the closing costs amount would not be reduced.

I was incredulous but not angry. It is just business, right?

I told the loan officer that the manager is risking the loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars in interest revenue alone for about $23/month (the monthly payment difference between 3.625 rate vs 3.5). And by charging me the additional points, the manager was trying to jab me ~$2000 to get the same rate that other lenders would provide for no points.

Note: the total interest revenue for a 30 yr fixed note for my loan amount at 3.5% would be a little over $184K. It is very unlikely that I (or my beneficiaries) would hold the note for the full term; a more likely scenario is that the note would be satisfied in 10 years, thus generating ~$104K in interest revenue.

I reminded the loan officer- who was MOST professional throughout the ordeal- that we were loyal CFWM customers with excellent credit and a proven track record of making timely payments who were willing to give CFWM hundreds of thousands of dollars of business. I asked him to check with his manager once more, before I closed the book on them and moved on.

The manager’s response was that CFWM “cannot do any better for our business than what I have offered you.” (cannot?Really?) I have moved on to a local lender who is experienced with the villages closing process and who quoted a 3.5% rate with no points and $2300 less in closing costs. The lender stated that they are usually able to close 30 calendar days out from the date of application.

Once the dust settles, I intend to write a letter to the president of CFWM to inform him of the professionalism and diligence of our loan officer, and also of one of his managers’ business decision that cost his company in excess of one hundred thousand dollars. In my former life as a senior manager, I welcomed responsible input about the agency’s personnel and business delivery operations. I presume that the CFWM president is of like mind.

[BettyCrocked]

I have heard from several people that cfwm is higher on closing costs than anyone else around. It's just a shame that they tell you twice they will match and then don't follow through.

[perrjojo]

Actually they did not loose the interest. They immediately sell your loan in the secondary market and their profit comes from that sale. They retain "servicing" which means they take your payment, manage your escrow and are paid a fee for that service. They do not keep the interest on your loan. It goes to whomever purchased the loan from them. This is the way most Mortgage banks work. Banks on other hand normally keep your loan and collect the interest. You may notice their name is Citizens First Wholesale Mortgage. Wholesale means it's gonna be sold.

[applesoffh]

Jusst over a year ago we went through the mortgage process with Citizens...absolutely no negotiation on rate, points, costs. Nothing. It was take it or leave it. (This was OUR experience. I am not speaking for anyone else). BTW, our credit ratings are well above what was needed (not bragging) and we thought we would get a better rate based on that. No way!

[gomoho]

I believe too many folks fall into the trap of doing business with a Village connected business for what ever reason - maybe it's the easy way??? Not only is the mortgage company making out like a bandit so are The Village Golf Cart stores. Their product doesn't come close to what Carts and Clubs offers. " But they are right in TV and will pick up my cart for service and return it" - well Carts and Clubs comes to your driveway and does the service. I don't have anything to do with any of these companies, just saying that sometimes you need to look outside the bubble for your best deal.

[justjim]

As I mentioned in a related Thread, we decided on getting a mortgage Because of the current low interest rates----bottom line---- we saved many $$$$ by going with our bank in Illinois. If you don't shop around, you will be "throwing" money away. The easy way is not always the best way!

[blueash]

Moral of the story.. When a salesman makes a statement, get it in writing. I do hope your letter makes it to the big boss and your decision to post here reaches a wide audience. Reputation is important and as a business they should have clear policies of how to handle your question. They must get asked about matching all the time. I am very surprised your contact didn't know he didn't have the authority to offer to match, or perhaps he did know and thought you would accept a counter offer once the due date got close.

[cgalloway6]

We also found Citizens to be the highest of all the local financial institutions. You can hit 4 or 5 in a row along 466 and get comparisons. None are identical comparisons since they have some different terms but you can compare the interest rates and total closing costs. The Villages sales department tries to push Citizens by emphasizing the penalty for missing a closing although I don't think any of the local lenders have missed one.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by justjim

As I mentioned in a related Thread, we decided on getting a mortgage Because of the current low interest rates----bottom line---- we saved many $$$$ by going with our bank in Illinois. If you don't shop around, you will be "throwing" money away. The easy way is not always the best way!

Thrifty and wise people shop for money. A small town bank doesn't always have the power of a larger one to give you a better deal on points and closing costs and rates.

We still like Citizens First. We didn't have a mortgage. But if we did, Sweetie is a great bargain hunter and would have found us the best deal..

Folks should do their due diligence and get their proven negotiation written down.

I know that people have complained about Citizens First not getting back to them right away but I have to think that is because they probably receive more loan applications than any small bank in the country. Who sells this many houses?

I say...if you don't like it shop around. Finances and loan charges fluctuate all of the time.

[mickey100]

Originally Posted by gmcneill

We have a mortgage with Citizen’s First Wholesale Mortgage (CFWM). That mortgage will be satisfied with the sale of our home next month.

We started the mortgage loan process for our new Villages home this past January. At the time, we asked our loan officer if CFWM would match local lender’s rates, points, and closing costs. He confirmed yes.

Two weeks ago our loan officer contacted us to tell us that rates had dropped. Consequently, we began the formal mortgage loan process. We again asked our loan officer if CFWM would match local lender’s rates, points, and closing costs. He again confirmed yes.

This past week, I advised our loan officer that four local lenders had publicized rates lower than the CFWM rate he quoted to us (3.50% vs 3.75% all with no points) and considerably lower closing costs. He stated that his manager would require us to provide a written “apples-to-apples” closing cost estimate sheet before CFWM would consider the match. That made sense to me (but I was concerned about his use of the word “consider”) so I provided him with the first closing cost estimate sheet that I received.

The next day the loan officer emailed me back the manager’s response: CFWM would lower the loan rate to 3.625%, with no points, and reduce their closing costs by $1100. I replied that it’s a start, but not a match. I told the loan officer to tell the manager that I expected the match as I was told I would receive.

A short time after receiving my email, the loan officer emailed me the manager’s response: CFWM would give me the 3.5% rate but that they would have to charge me an additional .625 points to do so. ([I]have to[I]; Really?) And the closing costs amount would not be reduced.

I was incredulous but not angry. It is just business, right?

I told the loan officer that the manager is risking the loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars in interest revenue alone for about $23/month (the monthly payment difference between 3.625 rate vs 3.5). And by charging me the additional points, the manager was trying to jab me ~$2000 to get the same rate that other lenders would provide for no points.

Note: the total interest revenue for a 30 yr fixed note for my loan amount at 3.5% would be a little over $184K. It is very unlikely that I (or my beneficiaries) would hold the note for the full term; a more likely scenario is that the note would be satisfied in 10 years, thus generating ~$104K in interest revenue.

I reminded the loan officer- who was MOST professional throughout the ordeal- that we were loyal CFWM customers with excellent credit and a proven track record of making timely payments who were willing to give CFWM hundreds of thousands of dollars of business. I asked him to check with his manager once more, before I closed the book on them and moved on.

The manager’s response was that CFWM “cannot do any better for our business than what I have offered you.” (cannot; Really?) I have moved on to a local lender who is experienced with the villages closing process and who quoted a 3.5% rate with no points and $2300 less in closing costs. The lender stated that they are usually able to close 30 calendar days out from the date of application.

Once the dust settles, I intend to write a letter to the president of CFWM to inform him of the professionalism and diligence of our loan officer, and also of one of his managers’ business decision that cost his company in excess of one hundred thousand dollars. In my former life as a senior manager, I welcomed responsible input about the agency’s personnel and business delivery operations. I presume that the CFWM president is of like mind.

My hat is off to you. You are a good consumer. When we originally got our mortgage, we had the same issue - higher interest rates and higher closing costs. We got our mortgage through another lender. I think Citizens feels they have a captive audience here, and can get away with charging higher prices. Many I have spoken to were worried about the time frame of the closing and went with Citizens for that reason.

[OnTrack]

When we were shopping around for a small mortgage on our previously owned home here, they didn't even have the courtesy to call us back....we had to call them.

I don't know if it was the small amount of the mortgage or the fact it wasn't one of their homes, but they didn't act real interested.

The fact that their % rate and closing costs were substantially higher than anyone else's, made it a no-brainer as to not even consider them.

I think Citizens depends on a lot of people who don't mind wasting money, because they are only down here for a short time buying trip........and like the idea that everything is being taken care of "in-house."

.

[nitehawk]

I do not deal with Citizens - I also do not like discrimination in any form --- never have seen a male employee in any of there branches ---sorry to all of the woman out there but discrimination is discrimination

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Originally Posted by gomoho

I believe too many folks fall into the trap of doing business with a Village connected business for what ever reason - maybe it's the easy way??? Not only is the mortgage company making out like a bandit so are The Village Golf Cart stores. Their product doesn't come close to what Carts and Clubs offers. " But they are right in TV and will pick up my cart for service and return it" - well Carts and Clubs comes to your driveway and does the service. I don't have anything to do with any of these companies, just saying that sometimes you need to look outside the bubble for your best deal.

it pays to shop around in many cases

[57ChevyFI]

For some reason, the trust issue issue is in question. We wanted to get the biggest garage I could in a designer home. We went over this with our real estate agent and he assured, with no question or doubt, that the biggest garage we could get was in the Lantana with a stretch. The BIGGEST garage we could get was 26' deep. No way no how could we get one bigger. He was 100% positive "I've been selling houses in the Villages for 10 years and that is it, nothing bigger". We were walking around our neighborhood yesterday and saw a garage door open in a house being built. The garage was 28' deep. We looked at the blueprints, and it was a Lantana.

[gomoho]

Originally Posted by 57ChevyFI

For some reason, the trust issue issue is in question. We wanted to get the biggest garage I could in a designer home. We went over this with our real estate agent and he assured, with no question or doubt, that the biggest garage we could get was in the Lantana with a stretch. The BIGGEST garage we could get was 26' deep. No way no how could we get one bigger. He was 100% positive "I've been selling houses in the Villages for 10 years and that is it, nothing bigger". We were walking around our neighborhood yesterday and saw a garage door open in a house being built. The garage was 28' deep. We looked at the blueprints, and it was a Lantana.

Let's just say you can be less flexible when you have a captive audience!