[TheWatcher]

Just replaced a leaking hot water tank. The tank warranty required an expansion tank be in place. The tech took a picture to document the installation. So check your warranty if you do not have an expansion tank.

[photo1902]

Originally Posted by lpkruege1

You mean like the contractor installed it? Mine was simply installed hanging on the 3/4 CPVC. So as long as the bladder is still good it simply needs to be refilled with air. They should be checked from time to time and refilled. You need to know what your water pressure is for your home. You would need a gauge to test your water pressure and then based on the tanks recommendations, fill the tank to the correct pressure. A replacement tank is about $50 the gauge and adapter another $30 but now you get rid of the yearly service call. A little time on the internet can save a lot of dollars. It depends on how handy you are and if you have any tools.

Having replaced many of them, I am not a fan of the way the construction plumbers mounted them standing on top of 3/4" CPVC. The photo I've attached is much more substantial, given the fact that the tank will fail (not if, but when).

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Berwin

Why do water heaters in Florida homes have expansion tanks?

Code.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by photo1902

That's your perogative. I do my own plumbing, but if I hired a plumber that used SharkBites, I'd find another plumber. Also, SharkBite sells solvent weld, in addition to push-to connect, so you'd need to see which they used.

I do my own plumbing also. At the time my back was out and I couldn’t crawl under the kitchen sink. Shark bite also has removal tool that makes them easy to remove, not like the accor ones widely used you have to twist off. I also was suspicious until I watch utube pressure test With different types connections including soldered shark bite was the last one to fail all most every time.

[nn0wheremann]

Originally Posted by jswirs

You must be joking. I would like to know how many hot water tanks have drain piping to the outside when the tank is located in the garage.

Mine does. Marion County. No expansion tank. Installed in 2003 by the developer when the house was built. Lotsa hot water whenever I want it. Also, it’s a gas, not electric unit.

[PugMom]

thank you all for a very good, informational thread

[nn0wheremann]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

They have expansion tanks to prevent pressure build up when water is heated and expands.

All homes have a backflow preventer installed to protect the city water supply. This device prevents water from flowing out of your house back into the main lines. When cold water is heated it expands and takes up more space. With your faucets closed and the backflow preventer in place the expanding water has no place to go. With nowhere to go, the expansion causes the water pressure inside your home to increase, potentially to a point where something breaks.

In my home, the increased pressure forced its way out of my shower. I could see that it had leaked throughout the night and I was looking into faucet valve replacements.

The expansion tank provides a space for the water to expand into. Instead of increasing pressure in the lines, the water flows into the tank. The pressure in the lines may increase a tiny amount but nothing like the increase if there was no room for expansion.

I was lucky and was able to repair my tank. I also bought a replacement that now sits in the box ready to be installed when it is needed.

So, why do you need all that and a pressure relief valve and pipe that drains into the pan under the water heater, and then outside the house via the pan drain? It all seems redundant to me.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Did you also install an expansion tank? And, does it have a drain pan under the water heater with drain piping to the outside? Anyone replacing their water heater should ensure that these things are included. They are required by the code.

Two years ago, I had mine replaced and licensed well known plumber in TV did not install a pan. Asked installer and he said that it was not required since it was in the garage and garage floor was lower than living area floor and if/when tank wore out it would drain onto the driveway. Do not know if code changed since that time. He did not pull a permit and I do not know if a permit was needed.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by nn0wheremann

So, why do you need all that and a pressure relief valve and pipe that drains into the pan under the water heater, and then outside the house via the pan drain? It all seems redundant to me.

The pressure relief valve on the hot water heater is designed to prevent an explosion by opening at about 150psi. The expansion tank is designed to maintain the pressure in your lines at about 60psi.

The pressure in my lines did not get high enough to open the pressure valve though it did get high enough to cause the shower to leak. While it was not high enough to risk a tank explosion it was high enough to put additional stress on all the pipes, fittings, joints, and valves in my house. It probably/hopefully did not cause damage but it could have. A working expansion tank that keeps the pressure near normal prevents that additional stress.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by npwalters

I needed to replace my water heater due to a small leak. I found the one I wanted at Home Depot. 40 gallon electric with a 6 year warranty at a cost of $439 plus tax.

I checked with Home Depots installation contractor and told the lady which unit I wanted. She gave me a quote of $1,400 to install it (in the same location in my garage) and remove the existing one. I questioned the approximate $800 dollars JUST for installation and she became very condescending and told me that was a standard quote, I didn't understand the costs involved, and if I called Lowes it would be the same since she also did those quotes.

I said no thanks. The next day I went to Home Depot, bought the water heater and the items I needed to install it. I drained and removed the old one and installed the new in less than 3 hours. Full disclosure - since it is in the garage and the water connections are easily visible and accessible I used Shark Bite connectors. I put the old one on the street and called for pickup which cost me $10.

Bottom line is the entire cost was under $500 by doing it myself. Yes, I am a little handy and comfortable with the electrical and basic plumbing.

There are contractors on this site that are much more reasonable than my experience with the HD sub. I post this to inform anyone that cares that there ARE contractors out there that will take advantage of you, especially in TV. A few phone calls could save you a few bucks.

Good for you. Mike Scott did ours 2 years ago and they charged about $800 and heater cost about $500 at that time. 2-3 hours labor. Very satisfied. HD and Lowes used to be much better and fair in the past but not any longer. They probably charge everybody the same installation price. Simple jobs make more money, complex jobs less money

[jrref]

I'm kind of surprised that you had this experience with Home Depot. When we bought our home 2 years ago I had them install a new higher efficiency electric hot water heater without issue. The price was competitive. They installed a new expansion tank and pan, etc without me asking. I agree you can change your electric hot water heater fairly easily yourself if you have some help getting the old tank out and the new tank in but for many of the older folks here in the Villages, this is not really an option.

As far as installing appliances, I've found the installers at Lowes are very good and know what they are doing since they have dedicated techs that only work in the Villages and the surrounding local areas so they are very familiar with our homes designs. When I bought a dishwasher at Lowes they asked me which model home I had and a few questions about the kitchen layout and knew what I needed for the install such as hose lengths, etc..

We also were able to get the extended warrenty on our new appliances at a good price due to the sale and when we had a problem with the display on the microwave the process was very easy to get support and the tech replaced the defective part within a weeks time. He had to come out to see what the problem was, ordered the part then came and installed it. If the Microwave was unrepairable for whatever reason the would be obligated to replace it.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by kkingston57

Two years ago, I had mine replaced and licensed well known plumber in TV did not install a pan. Asked installer and he said that it was not required since it was in the garage and garage floor was lower than living area floor and if/when tank wore out it would drain onto the driveway. Do not know if code changed since that time. He did not pull a permit and I do not know if a permit was needed.

The typical water heater installation for new houses in The Villages does include a drain pan. The water heater is installed on an 18-inch high platform in the garage, so it is definitely higher than the living space. The garage floor is not below the living space floor level, except for a slight slope in the garage floor. Here is what the plumbing code says about drain pans:

"Where a storage tank-type water heater or a hot water storage tank is installed in a location where water leakage from the tank will cause damage, the tank shall be installed in a pan ..."

I think a water heater leak could cause damage in the garage because most garages have finished and painted drywall, some are enclosed in a closet, and the wood platform could also be damaged. I have not recently seen any plumber install a water heater without a drain pan, and I would not allow that type of installation in my house.

[villagetinker]

Originally Posted by Berwin

Why do water heaters in Florida homes have expansion tanks?

Because the water meter has a valve that blocks reverse flow, so when the water heater heats up the water, it expands and the pressure in the house plumbing goes up, to the point where damage could occur. The expansion tank provides a cushion of air so the pressure spikes are much lower, and as previously noted these are required by code.

On a side note, expansion tanks last 5 to 7 years, and the simple test is to tap on the tank, below the weld line it should be dull sound, above the weld line it should be more like a bell.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by villagetinker

Because the water meter has a valve that blocks reverse flow, so when the water heater heats up the water, it expands and the pressure in the house plumbing goes up, to the point where damage could occur. The expansion tank provides a cushion of air so the pressure spikes are much lower, and as previously noted these are required by code.

On a side note, expansion tanks last 5 to 7 years, and the simple test is to tap on the tank, below the weld line it should be dull sound, above the weld line it should be more like a bell.

This is a notably different sound. If you aren't sure there is a difference then there probably isn't and the tank is probably bad.

(I spent a few weeks with a bad tank because I was convincing myself I heard a different sound. Once the problem was resolved and the tank was working properly, the difference in sound was very clear)

[photo1902]

Rather than the tapping method to tell if an expansion tank has failed, use an air pressure gauge (tire pressure gauge) on the Schrader valve located on top of the tank. If it squirts water, that's a clear sign the rubber diaphragm has failed.