[CoachKandSportsguy]

National Electrical Code for Residential homes:

The 2020 NEC® states that Arc-fault circuit-interrupter (AFCI) protection shall be provided as required in 210.12(A), (B), (C), and (D). The arc-fault circuit interrupter shall be installed in a readily accessible location.

(A) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by any of the means described in 210.12(A)(1) through (6)

Additional information provided in the 2020 NEC
The page you’re looking for has either been moved or deleted.

Anyone's house wired with AFCI breakers in conjunction with the GFCI outlets, or is this code, just an added protection designed by some electrical engineers for additional work?

ie, cost benefit too high to make it not worth it?

thanks

[Spartan86]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

National Electrical Code for Residential homes:

The 2020 NEC® states that Arc-fault circuit-interrupter (AFCI) protection shall be provided as required in 210.12(A), (B), (C), and (D). The arc-fault circuit interrupter shall be installed in a readily accessible location.

(A) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by any of the means described in 210.12(A)(1) through (6)
My 2019 designer in Marsh Bend has AFCI/GFCI almost exclusively. The HVAC, tankless water heater and exterior pole light are the only conventional breakers.

Additional information provided in the 2020 NEC
The page you’re looking for has either been moved or deleted.

Anyone's house wired with AFCI breakers in conjunction with the GFCI outlets, or is this code, just an added protection designed by some electrical engineers for additional work?

ie, cost benefit too high to make it not worth it?

thanks

My 2019 home in Marsh Bend hasAFCI/GFCI almost exclusively. The HVAC, tankless water heater, exterior post light and irrigation are the only conventional breakers in the box.

[villagetinker]

The AFCI circuit breakers are for rooms that are likely to have extension cords or long wires plugged in, like bedrooms, living room, and dining room. These are designed to trip for an ARC from a pinched or worn wire or cord which can cause a fire. The GFCI breakers or GFCI outlets are located where water may be present, outside outlets, bathroom, garage, and kitchen. These are designed to detect possible current flow from failed insulation to ground and work around 5 milliamperes. These protect the user from electrical shocks.
You should not have both on the same circuit (my understanding).

[jimhoward]

I hate GFCI outlets, which I have had in previous houses. They trip at the slightest surge (even though that is not a ground fault), and then you have to find what outlet has the GFCI on it as everything downsteam goes out, yet the breaker doesn't trip. If you have a big house that is a pain.

Here in the villages, all my GFCI's are on the breakers. That makes things way better and easier. The GFCI doesn't trip unless you actually have a ground fault and the tripped GFCI breaker is easy to find.

Do others have GFCI outlets in the villages?


I don't know what an AFCI is (except as explained within this thread). I don't think I have any of those in my house, unless they are in the breakers and look just like GFCIs. Do other people? If I have a short, the breaker itself just trips.

PS...wow learn something new everyday. I looked at my breakers and they all say combination dual purpose AFCI.

[JRcorvette]

Originally Posted by villagetinker

The AFCI circuit breakers are for rooms that are likely to have extension cords or long wires plugged in, like bedrooms, living room, and dining room. These are designed to trip for an ARC from a pinched or worn wire or cord which can cause a fire. The GFCI breakers or GFCI outlets are located where water may be present, outside outlets, bathroom, garage, and kitchen. These are designed to detect possible current flow from failed insulation to ground and work around 5 milliamperes. These protect the user from electrical shocks.
You should not have both on the same circuit (my understanding).

Thanks for that information and clarification!

[Altavia]

Below is whey they are using.

"In the U.S. alone, nearly 50,000 residential fires each year are caused by an electrical malfunction, resulting in more deaths, injuries, and damage than any other type of fire in the home."

There's also a device called "Ting" that can monitor and report arc faults to prevent fires. Especially useful older homes without AFCI.


The Electrical Fire Problem - Ting

Some insurance companies provided then for no charge.

Ting may be available to you for Free from your insurance company

[Spartan86]

Originally Posted by villagetinker

You should not have both on the same circuit (my understanding).

I wanted to add an outlet in my WC, where GFCI would make sense. I researched as the circuit I tapped - MBR - was on an AFCI breaker. All evidence I found was that it was no issue, so I installed the GFCI outlet. It’s been approximately a year with no issue. GFCI tests normally with my plug in test device without tripping main circuit, and AFCI tests normally at breaker box.

[Altavia]

A Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) receptacle can be installed on the same circuit as an AFCI breaker or even an AFCI receptacle.

Many new installations utilize AFCI/GFCI dual-function breakers or receptacles to provide comprehensive protection.

https://leviton.com/content/dam/levi...FAQs-final.pdf

[villagetinker]

I did not say they could NOT be installed on the same circuit, I did say they are typically NOT installed on the same circuit, as these are installed for different purposes. I do see the previously mentioned situation where you could end up with one of each on the same circuit. BTW, Spartan, my understanding of Florida code requirements a homeowner cannot install new wiring, they can replace outlets, switches, etc., but not new wiring. I may be very wrong on this.

[Altavia]

Kitchen, laundry and bath breakers are typically BR dual purpose AFCI/GFCI in new construction.


Chapter 489 Section 503 - 2011 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate.

"In Florida, homeowners can install new wiring in their single-family or duplex residence under certain conditions, including for their own use and occupancy, and not for sale or lease, according to Florida Statute 489.503. The homeowner must also adhere to all applicable building codes and zoning regulations. "

[JoelJohnson]

I had a house built in 1959. We updated the panel to 200 amps. We had AFCI set for the bedrooms, but because the outlets weren't the only thing on the circuit they kept tripping. I just removed them and used regular breakers.

[Andyb]

Both required per code in every house.

[3105boy]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

National Electrical Code for Residential homes:

The 2020 NEC® states that Arc-fault circuit-interrupter (AFCI) protection shall be provided as required in 210.12(A), (B), (C), and (D). The arc-fault circuit interrupter shall be installed in a readily accessible location.

(A) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by any of the means described in 210.12(A)(1) through (6)

Additional information provided in the 2020 NEC
The page you’re looking for has either been moved or deleted.

Anyone's house wired with AFCI breakers in conjunction with the GFCI outlets, or is this code, just an added protection designed by some electrical engineers for additional work?

ie, cost benefit too high to make it not worth it?

thanks

Good subject. I have two Eaton arc detectors that trip often enough to research. They have an issue with the software and will provide replacements. I also checked all the other green Eaton breakers and found NONE would trip with the test button. Eaton replaced them all at no cost.

[villagetinker]

Originally Posted by Altavia

Kitchen, laundry and bath breakers are typically BR dual purpose AFCI/GFCI in new construction.


Chapter 489 Section 503 - 2011 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate.

"In Florida, homeowners can install new wiring in their single-family or duplex residence under certain conditions, including for their own use and occupancy, and not for sale or lease, according to Florida Statute 489.503. The homeowner must also adhere to all applicable building codes and zoning regulations. "

Thank you for the clarification.

[drstevens]

Simply put, AFCI prevent fires from arcing in the walls. The arc is not enough to trip 15 and 20 amp breakers, but can start a fire. Arcs can be either in series with the wiring or in parallel with a wiring hence they are dual function. The breaker is also dual function.
GFCI prevent electrocution, they monitor the current going in one wire and coming back on the other and they should be the same amperage. If they differ by more than 6 mA the circuit shuts off. It takes about 20 mA to kill a human being. They are necessary wherever a human may be in contact with the Earth, such as outside in the yard, swimming pools, and on concrete floors as in your garage. Code requires one part of your electrical circuit be connected to the Earth. That is the groundED wire which is white and is part of the circuit. The groundING wire is green or bare and is connected to all metal that a human might come in contact with while standing on the Earth.
A regular circuit breaker is designed to protect the wiring. Also, no circuit breaker may be loaded more than 80% of its rating if the load is continuous. According to the code, I’ll continuous load as any load that may be on for three hours or more.
Hope all that helps clarify a complex subject. I taught almost every subject involving electrical, electronics, & computers, for 37 years at Ohio university. I trained thousands of engineers and electricians. Big I also hold a journeyman wireman’s card out of local 134 in Chicago. Good luck!