[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Laker14

It makes no sense that all of these courses located within a few miles of each other can have such different conditions. I've read that it may be an issue with water restrictions. Maybe so. If so. If so, they should use more on the greens and less on the fairways. The fairways may then be bad, but at least the greens would be good. If you can't grow good fairways you can play preferred lies. But if the greens are just bumpy rutted sand, you got nothing.
.

There are different water withdrawal regulations, depending on that County golf course is in. TDS, Gleview, OB & Lopez can withdraw more water, than the courses south of them.

Water alone, does not drive golf course/grass conditions. It's only one factor, to say nothing of the fact, that this year's rainfall is within normal limits. If faced with a severe water shortage, the typical first line of defense is to limit irrigation to Tees & Greens. The next step, is to reduce "managed turf" (allow some areas to naturalize). I've managed golf courses under severe water restrictions and it's a challenge, but competent Superintendents can do it. That's where I think TV falls short. They've hired a bunch of "landscapers" to maintain golf courses and it's an entirely different business.

I have now been told by 2 people who are employed by TV, that the contractor responsible for TDS, Glenview & Lopez (perhaps OBH) has been re-tasked with supplementing the construction crews for the new golf courses down south (or perhaps, one or more of those courses is in "grow in" status, which likely means the Developer has taken over maintenance.

The Contractor that was handling Palmer and a few others, has taken over Glenview/TDS/Lopez.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Laurel is just as bad and it's only 4 months old.

Disagree, we played Laurel to Riley and there was a very noticeable deterioration in the quality of the greens after making the turn.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Disagree, we played Laurel to Riley and there was a very noticeable deterioration in the quality of the greens after making the turn.

I've had Palmer off my play list for almost 3 weeks, because the Greens were so bad on Riley & Laurel (I don't play Cherry). I go there to hit balls on the range and I'll try it again next week, based on your recommendation that Laurel's greens have improved.

The last time I played, I would have guessed that Riley's greens were diseased. Laurel's were just as bad from a playability standpoint, but I didn't notice as much indication of disease (not that I'm anywhere near an expert on turf management, but I've been involved with it for a long time).

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

I've had Palmer off my play list for almost 3 weeks, because the Greens were so bad on Riley & Laurel (I don't play Cherry). I go there to hit balls on the range and I'll try it again next week, based on your recommendation that Laurel's greens have improved.

The last time I played, I would have guessed that Riley's greens were diseased. Laurel's were just as bad from a playability standpoint, but I didn't notice as much indication of disease (not that I'm anywhere near an expert on turf management, but I've been involved with it for a long time).

Laurel’s greens had the usual unfixed ball marks of all Villages greens, probably worse than average because it gets played close to maximum capacity, but they weren’t diseased like Riley’s. That can obviously change quickly if the mowers spread whatever is causing the issues.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Laurel’s greens had the usual unfixed ball marks of all Villages greens, probably worse than average because it gets played close to maximum capacity, but they weren’t diseased like Riley’s. That can obviously change quickly if the mowers spread whatever is causing the issues.

I had some involvement with a golf course on Martha's Vineyard, that was approved with a condition that ALL turf management, had to be "organic". No artificial chemicals allowed. When you arrived there to play, your golf shoes were "treated" to make sure you didn't bring disease and/or chemicals onto the turf.

The permitting condition has been modified through the years, as it wasn't practical as written. Some chemicals are safer than the "organic alternative" and some turf conditions just don't respond to a readily available, organic solution.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

I had some involvement with a golf course on Martha's Vineyard, that was approved with a condition that ALL turf management, had to be "organic". No artificial chemicals allowed. When you arrived there to play, your golf shoes were "treated" to make sure you didn't bring disease and/or chemicals onto the turf.

The permitting condition has been modified through the years, as it wasn't practical as written. Some chemicals are safer than the "organic alternative" and some turf conditions just don't respond to a readily available, organic solution.

Farm Neck in Oak Bluffs? Love that course.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

There are different water withdrawal regulations, depending on that County golf course is in. TDS, Gleview, OB & Lopez can withdraw more water, than the courses south of them.

Water alone, does not drive golf course/grass conditions. It's only one factor, to say nothing of the fact, that this year's rainfall is within normal limits. If faced with a severe water shortage, the typical first line of defense is to limit irrigation to Tees & Greens. The next step, is to reduce "managed turf" (allow some areas to naturalize). I've managed golf courses under severe water restrictions and it's a challenge, but competent Superintendents can do it. That's where I think TV falls short. They've hired a bunch of "landscapers" to maintain golf courses and it's an entirely different business.

I have now been told by 2 people who are employed by TV, that the contractor responsible for TDS, Glenview & Lopez (perhaps OBH) has been re-tasked with supplementing the construction crews for the new golf courses down south (or perhaps, one or more of those courses is in "grow in" status, which likely means the Developer has taken over maintenance.

The Contractor that was handling Palmer and a few others, has taken over Glenview/TDS/Lopez.

that's distressing news. Palmer is in terrible shape after having had 2 of the 3 nines closed for improvements. If Glenview/TDS/and Lopez wind up looking like Palmer looks now, I may be done golfing in TV.

[Topspinmo]

Wouldn’t that be called playing the conditions? I thought golf was supposed to be challenging?

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Wouldn’t that be called playing the conditions? I thought golf was supposed to be challenging?

Well, it's nicer if when you roll a ball on the green the line and speed you impart on the ball has some influence on where it ends up, as opposed to which rut, pothole, or tumbleweed it hits along the way.

It's challenging enough on smooth greens.

How would you enjoy playing tennis or pickleball on a court full of weeds and potholes. It would be challenging, but it wouldn't be very much fun.

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

I had some involvement with a golf course on Martha's Vineyard, that was approved with a condition that ALL turf management, had to be "organic". No artificial chemicals allowed. When you arrived there to play, your golf shoes were "treated" to make sure you didn't bring disease and/or chemicals onto the turf..

Try getting into New Zealand with soil residue on golf shoes or on clubs.
Ours were checked both times we went there, and the bag the clubs were in.
We knew in advance, so had no problem.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

Try getting into New Zealand with soil residue on golf shoes or on clubs.
Ours were checked both times we went there, and the bag the clubs were in.
We knew in advance, so had no problem.

Same with fly fishing up north. Can no longer use boots with felt soles, which help prevent slipping on rocks. The felt can hold an invasive algae referred to as “rock snot” and hitchhike from one body of water to another.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Laker14

Well, it's nicer if when you roll a ball on the green the line and speed you impart on the ball has some influence on where it ends up, as opposed to which rut, pothole, or tumbleweed it hits along the way.

It's challenging enough on smooth greens.

How would you enjoy playing tennis or pickleball on a court full of weeds and potholes. It would be challenging, but it wouldn't be very much fun.

Lots of tennis and pickleball courts have lumps, leaves, and twigs on them . Saddlebrook tennis courts on south end last time I played there had more moguls than first responders putt putt course. Last time I played lopez clay courts it was like playing on plowed field.

But, I can see your point when you paying $$ to play sub par championship course. All I had to was sweep lopez courts smooth. I usually bring my blower also.

[Dilligas]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

There are different water withdrawal regulations, depending on that County golf course is in. TDS, Gleview, OB & Lopez can withdraw more water, than the courses south of them.

Water alone, does not drive golf course/grass conditions. It's only one factor, to say nothing of the fact, that this year's rainfall is within normal limits. If faced with a severe water shortage, the typical first line of defense is to limit irrigation to Tees & Greens. The next step, is to reduce "managed turf" (allow some areas to naturalize). I've managed golf courses under severe water restrictions and it's a challenge, but competent Superintendents can do it. That's where I think TV falls short. They've hired a bunch of "landscapers" to maintain golf courses and it's an entirely different business.

I have now been told by 2 people who are employed by TV, that the contractor responsible for TDS, Glenview & Lopez (perhaps OBH) has been re-tasked with supplementing the construction crews for the new golf courses down south (or perhaps, one or more of those courses is in "grow in" status, which likely means the Developer has taken over maintenance.

The Contractor that was handling Palmer and a few others, has taken over Glenview/TDS/Lopez.

You could have heard that from your barber, just as factual as 2 TV employees

Why would the condition of any of the amenities managed by the "developers" surprise Villagers? We are on the 3rd and 4th generations of the founding families.

Take a drive from the tip of the north side of TV to the southern most side of T V. One can easily see where the Baby Boomer's "dream" development meets the beginning of Gen Z's revenue $$$ development.

Work ethics and etiquette went out the window when millennial kids were encouraged to no longer use formalities like "Mr. and Mrs." But instead were told to use first names.

Covid was a great excuse for work ethic to cease to exist.

Baby Boomers are living in the past. Gen Z could careless about the sticks on courts or the sand on the greens. $$$$ doesn't motivate their work ethic, they've grown up in imaginary video-land.

Lowering expectations is the future.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by GizmoWhiskers

Why would the condition of any of the amenities managed by the "developers" surprise Villagers? We are on the 3rd and 4th generations of the founding families.

Take a drive from the tip of the north side of TV to the southern most side of T V. One can easily see where the Baby Boomer's "dream" development meets the beginning of Gen Z's revenue $$$ development.

Work ethics and etiquette went out the window when millennial kids were encouraged to no longer use formalities like "Mr. and Mrs." But instead were told to use first names.

Covid was a great excuse for work ethic to cease to exist.

Baby Boomers are living in the past. Gen Z could careless about the sticks on courts or the sand on the greens. $$$$ doesn't even motivate them.

Sadly, lowering expectations is the future...

FYI, the Central Florida chapter of the National Optimist's Club meets every third Wednesday of the month