Question on how to eliminate flood insurance

[sbeaud]

We bought a house in Newell last year and have a mortgage on it. The lender requires flood insurance since the FEMA maps show a portion of the property in the “Zone A” (High Risk) flood plain (it's next to a preserve area). Of course the developer did not build on a flood plain, they filled in and elevated our area above the flood plain/Zone A. But the FEMA maps are the official document that the lender/insurer recognize and it does not reflect the revised topography. We have heard that the FEMA map will be updated eventually, but we don’t know when (online maps suggest the current one is from 2012). Some questions:

1. Is there a way to have FEMA update the map? There is an “Online Letter of Map Change” on the FEMA site, but there is a charge of $325-$425.

2. Is there an alternative way to have this done at no cost?

[nyjets53]

What did you end up doing

[Stu from NYC]

Unless someone came up with a better idea I would pay the charge

[BrianL99]

We bought a house in Newell last year and have a mortgage on it. The lender requires flood insurance since the FEMA maps show a portion of the property in the “Zone A” (High Risk) flood plain (it's next to a preserve area). Of course the developer did not build on a flood plain, they filled in and elevated our area above the flood plain/Zone A. But the FEMA maps are the official document that the lender/insurer recognize and it does not reflect the revised topography. We have heard that the FEMA map will be updated eventually, but we don’t know when (online maps suggest the current one is from 2012). Some questions:

1. Is there a way to have FEMA update the map? There is an “Online Letter of Map Change” on the FEMA site, but there is a charge of $325-$425.

2. Is there an alternative way to have this done at no cost?


If there's a way to do it for no cost, I've never heard of it.

I suspect trying to do it yourself will cost you more than $300-$400 before your done.

You could also hire a Land Surveyor or Registered Professional Engineer, who can do it for you, on the spot ... provided you have the proper documentation.

You could have a long wait before the FEMA map is re-drawn and even then, don't count on it being 100% accurate for random properties.

If you used an attorney for closing, you must have been made aware of the fact that you're in a Flood Zone?

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

You’ll be glad if you ever have any water that gets inside your house.

[villagetinker]

If there's a way to do it for no cost, I've never heard of it.

I suspect trying to do it yourself will cost you more than $300-$400 before your done.

You could also hire a Land Surveyor or Registered Professional Engineer, who can do it for you, on the spot ... provided you have the proper documentation.

You could have a long wait before the FEMA map is re-drawn and even then, don't count on it being 100% accurate for random properties.

If you used an attorney for closing, you must have been made aware of the fact that you're in a Flood Zone?

That may have been a flood zone prior to the regrading for development. I think the OP has a valid point, when these areas are developed, the flood plain should be resurveyed. If there is any documentation from 2015 when IRMA came through you might be able to use that if this area was not flooded.

[BrianL99]

That may have been a flood zone prior to the regrading for development. I think the OP has a valid point, when these areas are developed, the flood plain should be resurveyed. If there is any documentation from 2015 when IRMA came through you might be able to use that if this area was not flooded.


If I'm not mistaken, when the development of that area was done, the design engineer could have had the designation changed fairly easily, by submitting the proper documentation. Which makes me wonder if there's not more to the story.

[PersonOfInterest]

We bought a house in Newell last year and have a mortgage on it. The lender requires flood insurance since the FEMA maps show a portion of the property in the “Zone A” (High Risk) flood plain (it's next to a preserve area). Of course the developer did not build on a flood plain, they filled in and elevated our area above the flood plain/Zone A. But the FEMA maps are the official document that the lender/insurer recognize and it does not reflect the revised topography. We have heard that the FEMA map will be updated eventually, but we don’t know when (online maps suggest the current one is from 2012). Some questions:

1. Is there a way to have FEMA update the map? There is an “Online Letter of Map Change” on the FEMA site, but there is a charge of $325-$425.

2. Is there an alternative way to have this done at no cost?

Our house is also in a flood plain and we pay yearly Flood Insurance. I also looked into this 2 years ago. From what I found the developer does submit 'change of elevation' to FEMA, but that is not enough for FEMA to change the map. It could be 10 yrs or more before FEMA revises the map. My conclusion after spending hours doing research is that this is another governmental 'Rip Off' that leaves the consumer holding the bag with no reasonable recourse. Our flood insurance is $700 / year.

[BrianL99]

If I'm not mistaken, when the development of that area was done, the design engineer could have had the designation changed fairly easily, by submitting the proper documentation. Which makes me wonder if there's not more to the story.

Our house is also in a flood plain and we pay yearly Flood Insurance. I also looked into this 2 years ago. From what I found the developer does submit 'change of elevation' to FEMA, but that is not enough for FEMA to change the map. It could be 10 yrs or more before FEMA revises the map. My conclusion after spending hours doing research is that this is another governmental 'Rip Off' that leaves the consumer holding the bag with no reasonable recourse. Our flood insurance is $700 / year.

If the Developer went through the process (which is not overly onerous, there should be a letter. See attached

[Rainger99]

If the Developer went through the process (which is not overly onerous, there should be a letter. See attached

Nothing is attached. Can other people see the attachment?

[BrianL99]

Nothing is attached. Can other people see the attachment?

I can't even see it and I posted it. I'll try it again.

[FEMA doesn't necessarily "change the map", but will issue the letter.]

[dewilson58]

We bought a house in Newell last year and have a mortgage on it. The lender requires flood insurance since the FEMA maps show a portion of the property in the “Zone A” (High Risk) flood plain (it's next to a preserve area). Of course the developer did not build on a flood plain, they filled in and elevated our area above the flood plain/Zone A. But the FEMA maps are the official document that the lender/insurer recognize and it does not reflect the revised topography. We have heard that the FEMA map will be updated eventually, but we don’t know when (online maps suggest the current one is from 2012). Some questions:

1. Is there a way to have FEMA update the map? There is an “Online Letter of Map Change” on the FEMA site, but there is a charge of $325-$425.

2. Is there an alternative way to have this done at no cost?

Make sure you understand coverage before eliminating.

[frayedends]

I have the same situation in lake Denham. We were told the map updates would take only a couple of months. Of course it’s been 8 months and no change yet.

Who is ever using for insurance/flood insurance ? We went with Kin. The Villages insurance wanted like $2000 extra for flood. Kin was only $300 extra. Same coverage. But I’ve heard bad things about Kin if anything happens and that our premium will skyrocket after the first year.

[Michael G.]

If you think about it, isn't the whole state of Florida a flood plane??
We have to be at sea level or slightly above.

[gatorbill1]

It all depends on your elevation or height above flood level

[frayedends]

It all depends on your elevation or height above flood level

Yeah, the reason we were in a flood plane and not any longer is they raised the ground level. For my house I have a ~6' retaining wall behind the house in front of the preserve area. So they raised the elevation to avoid the flood issue. Not sure what they did to get the maps redone.

[Altavia]

If you think about it, isn't the whole state of Florida a flood plane??
We have to be at sea level or slightly above.

This area is generally 75 +/- 10ft above sea level. Earth they removed from the retention areas is used to raise the homes to that level where necessary.

You can measure with your smart phone:

What is my altitude? (https://whataltitude.com/)

Google Maps;
Elevation – shown on Google Maps (https://www.randymajors.org/elevation-on-google-maps?x=-81.1436732&y=28.8242041&cx=-82.0033533&cy=28.7905106&zoom=8)


Or use Google Earth

Find imagery dates, altitude & coordinates - Computer - Google Earth Help (https://support.google.com/earth/answer/7420934?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop#:~:text=Search%20for%2 0a%20place%2C%20or,different%20locations%2C%20the% 20altitude%20updates).

Map apps which may not be up to date for areas redeveloped.

Sugarloaf Mountain, not far from here is the most prominent point in the U.S. state of Florida. At 312 feet (95.0976 m) above sea level it is also the highest point on the geographic Florida Peninsula.

The area makes for a nice senic to Mt Dora.

Sugarloaf Mountain (Florida) - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugarloaf_Mountain_(Florida)#:~:text=Sugarloaf%20M ountain%20is%20the%20fifth,on%20the%20geographic%2 0Florida%20Peninsula).

[Altavia]

For those not aware, here's some (2018) info on the storm water management system inn the Villages.

https://www.districtgov.org/PdfUpload/Storm%20Water.pdf

[elevatorman]

Don't live in a Flood zone? You may still be required to buy flood insurance if you have a homeowners policy from Citizens Property Insurance Corp. Citizens is the state-funded insurer of last resort. A recent state law requires anyone with a residential Citizens policy that includes wind coverage to buy flood insurance by the following deadlines:
Effective date
Which policies are affected
July 1, 2023
All existing Citizens policyholders living in a Special Flood Hazard Area.
Jan. 1, 2024
Homes with dwelling coverage of $600,000 or more.
Jan. 1, 2025
Homes with dwelling coverage of $500,000 or more.
Jan. 1, 2026
Homes with dwelling coverage of $400,000 or more.
Jan. 1, 2027
All other insured homes.

[BrianL99]

This is a fairly good representation of the elevations in TV.

The Villages topographic map, elevation, terrain (https://en-us.topographic-map.com/map-hwtngp/The-Villages/?center=28.90758%2C-82.009&zoom=12)

I think we're generally around 75' above sea level.

Sky View golf course reaches about 260' and Southern Hills Plantation course reaches about 250'. When playing either one of those, you feel like you're on top of the Florida world.

[JMintzer]

If you think about it, isn't the whole state of Florida a flood plane??
We have to be at sea level or slightly above.

According to the topographical maps, our house is 75' above sea level...

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So, once upon a time I worked for a town engineer, and had to learn about FEMA maps.

EVERYONE is in a flood zone. The entire country is mapped out - and there are several different zones. All land falls into one zone or another, including "undetermined" flood risk areas. The phrase "I'm not in a flood zone" is basically a misunderstanding of flood zones.

A floodplain is a flat area of land next to a river or stream. It has nothing to do with how many feet above sea level you are. If a river runs through a mountain, and you live at the top of the mountain, and the river is next to your property, then you might be in a hazardous floodplain and need insurance, even though your property is over a thousand feet above sea level.

The actual zone letters are what FEMA uses to determine the risk of flood hazard.

The above is very basic, "explain it to me like I'm 11 years old" language, and there's a lot more technical stuff behind it, and insurance adds more layers of nuance.

You can see a more complete explanation here: FEMA Flood Maps and Zones Explained | FEMA.gov (https://www.fema.gov/blog/fema-flood-maps-and-zones-explained)

and you can click on the links on that webpage for details on specifics.

[villagetinker]

So, once upon a time I worked for a town engineer, and had to learn about FEMA maps.

EVERYONE is in a flood zone. The entire country is mapped out - and there are several different zones. All land falls into one zone or another, including "undetermined" flood risk areas. The phrase "I'm not in a flood zone" is basically a misunderstanding of flood zones.

A floodplain is a flat area of land next to a river or stream. It has nothing to do with how many feet above sea level you are. If a river runs through a mountain, and you live at the top of the mountain, and the river is next to your property, then you might be in a hazardous floodplain and need insurance, even though your property is over a thousand feet above sea level.

The actual zone letters are what FEMA uses to determine the risk of flood hazard.

The above is very basic, "explain it to me like I'm 11 years old" language, and there's a lot more technical stuff behind it, and insurance adds more layers of nuance.

You can see a more complete explanation here: FEMA Flood Maps and Zones Explained | FEMA.gov (https://www.fema.gov/blog/fema-flood-maps-and-zones-explained)

and you can click on the links on that webpage for details on specifics.

Your points are very good, when IRMA hit there were areas where we live (80 feet above sea level) where streets were flooded and very close to some houses. I also recall some areas in or very close to the historic area that had flooding problems. I had not thought about your points above. I did see water in locations that i have never seen before or after, and several golf courses were closed for several weeks due to excessive water. So it may not be as easy as I was thinking........

[Blueblaze]

I'm from Houston. Same topology as Florida. Same risk of hurricanes and tropical storms. Same distance from the ocean. Anybody remember tropical storm Harvey from the news a few years ago? My house and 2 acre property was in no flood plain whatsoever, but the border of the 100-year plain was across the street. Problem is, floods don't read maps.

Fortunately my builder was smart enough to berm that house against 48" of rain, anyway. I was stuck in that house for a week because that house became an island, 2" above a giant lake that extended a mile to the nearest creek. I didn't feel foolish for buying flood insurance that day. But I helped a lot of neighbors clean up who didn't think they needed it. If it had been a 50" day, I would have needed mine.

$325 for flood insurance and you live next to a flood plain? Don't be a fool. Pay the man!

[JRcorvette]

I can't even see it and I posted it. I'll try it again.

[FEMA doesn't necessarily "change the map", but will issue the letter.]

I handled Flood Claims for many years before retirement. The page posted from the FEMA site is correct. It is up to you to do it and pay the expense. I have no idea what it would cost now a days. You need to know exactly what your elevation is at. Just because FEMA sets an elevation for a 100 or 500 year flood does not mean that you will never get flooded. I have seen hundreds of homes flooded that should not have been flooded.

Here is an options for insurance. The mortgage company is going to require flood insurance but you do not have to take the maximum of $250,000. You can take less but you will not qualify for Replacement Cost coverage. Chances are that if you ever did get flooded it would be minimal damage to flooring maybe a few inches at most. Since the house is new depreciating would be minimal.