Replace laundry room light switch with motion sensor

[Fastskiguy]

OK all of you Iris owners, you know where I'm coming from! You walk in from the garage and turn on the light to the laundry room, take 2 steps, then turn it off again. On and off all day long. Well I thought...let's replace one of these switches with a motion sensing switch and all will be well with the universe.

Instructions couldn't be more simple.....black to black, bare wire to bare wire, and white to white....er....what is this pink / purple wire??!! What??

Well white to pink / purple didn't work but white and bare to bare worked fine except now there is a slight hum to the light fixture (LED) that wasn't there before.

Does any of this look remotely right? Any comments you have would be most appreciated :)

Joe

[RICH1]

did you have another switch also controlling the Laundry room light?

[Fastskiguy]

did you have another switch also controlling the Laundry room light?

Yep, one switch at each end of the "room" (I'm using the term room loosely here.....more of a very short hallway)

Joe

[RICH1]

does the other switch still work or was it disabled by removing the red wire?

[RICH1]

the idea of a motion light in the laundry room is genius! i installed one at my ex girlfriend's house... having a load of clothes and reaching for a switch has become a hardship! GREAT TIP
& Thank you for the pictures

[Malsua]

OK all of you Iris owners, you know where I'm coming from! You walk in from the garage and turn on the light to the laundry room, take 2 steps, then turn it off again. On and off all day long. Well I thought...let's replace one of these switches with a motion sensing switch and all will be well with the universe.

Instructions couldn't be more simple.....black to black, bare wire to bare wire, and white to white....er....what is this pink / purple wire??!! What??

Well white to pink / purple didn't work but white and bare to bare worked fine except now there is a slight hum to the light fixture (LED) that wasn't there before.

Does any of this look remotely right? Any comments you have would be most appreciated :)

Joe

So what you've done is that you have voltage on your ground leg.

While the neutral and the ground are bonded in the panel, they are not the same. A ground should never be carrying any voltage.

The problem, as I see it here, is that you've got a switch that was switching the black leg but your sensor switch needs actual voltage to work which means it needs a supply black, a supply neutral and the switched black.

The red wire is used with a 3 way switch configuration or the 3rd leg for a fan/light. It may not be connected to anything. If it goes into the same wire sheath as the switched black, it's probably up in the ceiling with a wire nut on it.

I see whites in your box, tucked away. The white wire must go to that and not to the ground. When a GFI senses voltage on a ground leg it'll trip. Code also requires that grounds do not carry any voltages and now it does. That needs to change.

[Fastskiguy]

does the other switch still work or was it disabled by removing the red wire?

Yeah it does, on and off like normal

[Fastskiguy]

So what you've done is that you have voltage on your ground leg.

While the neutral and the ground are bonded in the panel, they are not the same. A ground should never be carrying any voltage.

The problem, as I see it here, is that you've got a switch that was switching the black leg but your sensor switch needs actual voltage to work which means it needs a supply black, a supply neutral and the switched black.

The red wire is used with a 3 way switch configuration or the 3rd leg for a fan/light. It may not be connected to anything. If it goes into the same wire sheath as the switched black, it's probably up in the ceiling with a wire nut on it.

I see whites in your box, tucked away. The white wire must go to that and not to the ground. When a GFI senses voltage on a ground leg it'll trip. Code also requires that grounds do not carry any voltages and now it does. That needs to change.

I didn't totally understand....but thanks I appreciate it :) I get "not right" though!

I tried putting the red / pink / purple (whatever color it is) to the white on the switch and it didn't work (wouldn't turn on or off).....does that mean anything?

No GFI's have tripped at all FWIW

Joe

[villagetinker]

IMHO, I think you bought the wrong switch, you needed one for a TWO switch arrangement, then the instructions would have indicated what to do with the extra wires. I would eliminate the second switch and place the the motion detector switch ion the location that would provide the best operation. Other option, go back to the original switches and wiring, and replace the LIGHT blub/housing with a motion sensing unit. Then you simply leave the switch(es) in the ON position and let the motion detection control the light.
Using any light control device designed for a single switch installation on a 2 switch installation is usually asking for a lot of trouble.

[Toymeister]

---

[villagetinker]

IMHO, I think you bought the wrong switch, you needed one for a TWO switch arrangement, then the instructions would have indicated what to do with the extra wires. I would eliminate the second switch and place the the motion detector switch ion the location that would provide the best operation. Other option, go back to the original switches and wiring, and replace the LIGHT blub/housing with a motion sensing unit. Then you simply leave the switch(es) in the ON position and let the motion detection control the light.
Using any light control device designed for a single switch installation on a 2 switch installation is usually asking for a lot of trouble.

[Toymeister]

The third wire is your travelers wire used in three way switch configurations. For one switch configurations (ironically called a two way switch) it is not used.

Your instructions should have included how to wire this for three way switch set ups. A common way to wire it is not to 'eliminate' the extra switch, but rather use the motion switch in the other location and not use the travelers wire.

No, using a three way switch in a two way switch configuration is not dangerous, you just don't use the travelers wire (red).

Serious, hasn't anyone done house wiring here?

Bueller? Bueller?

[Malsua]

I didn't totally understand....but thanks I appreciate it :) I get "not right" though!

I tried putting the red / pink / purple (whatever color it is) to the white on the switch and it didn't work (wouldn't turn on or off).....does that mean anything?

No GFI's have tripped at all FWIW

Joe

Are there white wires in your box?

The white wire on your sensor MUST be installed into the white wire.

Having the white wire attached to the ground "works" by dumping AC down the ground leg. That's bad mojo. It can cause EMF, power quality issues, possibly a shock hazard and possibly a fire hazard.

Ground wires should only carry fault voltage.

Neutral wires carry normal loads. AC voltage is like a see saw. Electrons flow forward and back, 60 times a second. So the black supplies it, the appliance uses it and the electricity flows into the neutral....then back to the black again.

It sounds like the red wire is the 3rd leg of a 3-way. I.e. two switches controlling a 3rd thing. From the looks of it, that motion light does not support 3-way configuration.

[Toymeister]

Are there white wires in your box?
.

It's been national code for ten years, 2011 or 12. Some states required it well before that

[Fastskiguy]

Are there white wires in your box?

The white wire on your sensor MUST be installed into the white wire.

I see some white wires but they aren't hooked up to anything in the box....you can kinda see them in the first picture (the stock one)

How sure are we that the pink/purple wire is the "traveler wire" and...what is a traveler wire?

The ground wire is the bare wire, there is one in the wall and one on the new switch....I feel pretty confident about that.

There are also two black wires in the wall and two black wires on the switch....I feel pretty good about that too.

It's that forth wire I don't get. Would the wires under the other switch be different? As in....would there be a neutral wire green or white in color under there? I'm gonna look...

Thanks guys :)

[Fastskiguy]

I'm gonna look...

Nope, same. White wires not going anywhere the same as in the other switch. Does this help us?

[Fastskiguy]

So what you've done is that you have voltage on your ground leg.

While the neutral and the ground are bonded in the panel, they are not the same. A ground should never be carrying any voltage.

Here's the directions....I have (well..."had", now I have the black wires hooked up, the other wires are just sitting there disconnected until I...er..."we"...figure this out) it hooked up like in the lower picture 3B. In my case as in the picture I put the bare ground wires together along with the white wire from the new switch. I don't have the red wire connected to anything (you can see it capped off and not connected in the second picture in the first post)

So neutral and ground on the switch were connected to ground in the wall.

Does this change anything? Does that mean I connected voltage to my ground in the house?

[Fastskiguy]

IMHO, I think you bought the wrong switch, you needed one for a TWO switch arrangement, then the instructions would have indicated what to do with the extra wires. I would eliminate the second switch and place the the motion detector switch ion the location that would provide the best operation. Other option, go back to the original switches and wiring, and replace the LIGHT blub/housing with a motion sensing unit. Then you simply leave the switch(es) in the ON position and let the motion detection control the light.
Using any light control device designed for a single switch installation on a 2 switch installation is usually asking for a lot of trouble.

You know....this is starting to make some sense. This switch on amazon has a red wire on it....just like the original switch that I removed had on it.

But it requires a neutral....which I don't (obviously) have....although there are those white wires in both boxes not connected to each other.

Here's the 3 way motion switch

https://www.amazon.com/ECOELER-Single-Motion-Multi-Dual-Sensing/dp/B07WGJQBB3/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=3+way+switch+motion+sensor&qid=1633861299&s=hi&sr=1-4

[rsmurano]

Here's the directions....I have (well..."had", now I have the black wires hooked up, the other wires are just sitting there disconnected until I...er..."we"...figure this out) it hooked up like in the lower picture 3B. In my case as in the picture I put the bare ground wires together along with the white wire from the new switch. I don't have the red wire connected to anything (you can see it capped off and not connected in the second picture in the first post)

So neutral and ground on the switch were connected to ground in the wall.

Does this change anything? Does that mean I connected voltage to my ground in the house?

I think it’s time for an electrician to be called. You need a switch that can be used with that traveler wire. I installed a motion sensor in my old laundry room that was a 3 way switch configuration, best thing I did. You come home with your hands full and the light automatically turns on.
The other thing you have to do is program the switch once it’s installed, you set the sensitivity and length of time being on.

[chenault55]

You know....this is starting to make some sense. This switch on amazon has a red wire on it....just like the original switch that I removed had on it.

But it requires a neutral....which I don't (obviously) have....although there are those white wires in both boxes not connected to each other.

Here's the 3 way motion switch

https://www.amazon.com/ECOELER-Single-Motion-Multi-Dual-Sensing/dp/B07WGJQBB3/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=3+way+switch+motion+sensor&qid=1633861299&s=hi&sr=1-4

We don’t know much about electrical wiring so to be safe we call an electrician.

[Malsua]

It's been national code for ten years, 2011 or 12. Some states required it well before that

Assuming that something was done to code is not a safe assumption.

I've been inside a lot of switch and outlet boxes in TV and, just like his, they are all covered with spackle or some other white, chalky substance.

In his picture, I see a couple whites stuffed at the back of the box but they could be not white if they are just coated with white spackle. Should there be a white in there? Definitely. Is it? Probably. Do we know for sure? No. This is why I asked.

Something I've also found in a lot of TV boxes? Grounds not attached to anything. I've found loose wires behind patched drywall. Sure, it had wire nuts on it. That's not code.

I've also found a metric ton of push in connectors on everything. Yes, they are legal. No professional electrician I've known would ever use those. "oh, but it's easier". Sure it is. It's also led to house fires and callbacks.

I've also done electric work in equipment bound for Germany and the German electricians, who are required to go through anything we've done, pull off wire nuts and install WAGOs, but those are not $1.10 electrical switches. They are high quality push in connectors rated for the load; Typically 380(it's 400/50 in Germany) 3 phase.

[Malsua]

Nope, same. White wires not going anywhere the same as in the other switch. Does this help us?

Just some basics here.

A switch typically only switches the black wire.

A 3-way has two black wires and a red wire. The red wire goes to a different switch to allow either switch to turn on or off the item.

Your motion light is a device that requires power so it needs the black and white(Hot/neutral) and also needs to be grounded(bare).

First things first, you need to wire your motion switch into a white wire. THIS MUST HAPPEN. Do not leave the white wire attached to the ground(bare) wire.

As it appears you did not get a 3-way capable motion switch you're out of luck with the red wire. Either get one or cap the red off and abandon using the other switch.

[Luggage]

Personally I would have put in a skylight

[nick demis]

OK all of you Iris owners, you know where I'm coming from! You walk in from the garage and turn on the light to the laundry room, take 2 steps, then turn it off again. On and off all day long. Well I thought...let's replace one of these switches with a motion sensing switch and all will be well with the universe.

Instructions couldn't be more simple.....black to black, bare wire to bare wire, and white to white....er....what is this pink / purple wire??!! What??

Well white to pink / purple didn't work but white and bare to bare worked fine except now there is a slight hum to the light fixture (LED) that wasn't there before.

Does any of this look remotely right? Any comments you have would be most appreciated :)

Joe

But a $5.00 plug in light sensor from Home Depot. We have several so when we get up in the middle of the night. We can go to the kitchen or bathroom without disturbing one another.

[MandoMan]

So what you've done is that you have voltage on your ground leg.

While the neutral and the ground are bonded in the panel, they are not the same. A ground should never be carrying any voltage.

The problem, as I see it here, is that you've got a switch that was switching the black leg but your sensor switch needs actual voltage to work which means it needs a supply black, a supply neutral and the switched black.

The red wire is used with a 3 way switch configuration or the 3rd leg for a fan/light. It may not be connected to anything. If it goes into the same wire sheath as the switched black, it's probably up in the ceiling with a wire nut on it.

I see whites in your box, tucked away. The white wire must go to that and not to the ground. When a GFI senses voltage on a ground leg it'll trip. Code also requires that grounds do not carry any voltages and now it does. That needs to change.

This is puzzling. There should be a green ground wire coming from the switch, but I don’t see it. The bare wire coming from the switch housing is grounding the housing, but you need the green wire to ground the switch itself. A three-way switch is necessary here. This looks more like a three-way with the green ground missing than like a two way. I’ll attach Lutron directions for a 3-way switch and a 2-way. But this one is different because it’s missing the green wire. Unless this is a new model with a combined ground, in which case this IS a 3-way and should probably be connected any black to any black, any black, to any black, white from switch to red, and ground to ground. But the directions show a blue wire from the switch, not white. A white wire would never be used for a ground wire! Check the wiring diagram that came with the switch. It may be a newer model. (While I’ve wired and rewired houses I’ve owned, I’m not an electrician, so don’t trust me on this.)

[butlerism]

Hello.

Go find a plug in light with a motion detector.

Those detectors installed in a multi-way configuration is not a good application.

Typically motion detectors are end of the "branch circuit" application.
For instance I have a singular switch supplying power out to my back light, out back the motion detector turns the light on and off.

My other observation, how bad is the internal lighting in your home. During the day I never flip on lights.
All these windows and the skylight, everything is well lit.

Another fact, I shut off all the lights on the garage door opener. Why?

15 feet away outside I have a lamp pole that provides enough light in the garage, add in the headlights, no issues.

Sometimes we just have to think out of the box

[rcsnr1]

We replaced ours with a motion sensor light bulb. Goes off after 45 seconds if no activity.

[JMintzer]

Serious, hasn't anyone done house wiring here?

Bueller? Bueller?

I try not to. I've accidentally "let the smoke out" of too many things... :1rotfl:

Now plumbing, drywall, carpentry, tile work? I'm your guy!

[ellenwelsh]

I have an LED nightlight in there for night and a solar tube for days. I don’t think I’ve turned the light on in there for years.

[jimkerr]

A solar tree be is a good solution but for the price you’re better off with your motion sensor. I just installed one in my garage and love it.

[tophcfa]

Personally I would have put in a skylight

We have a solar tube in our laundry room between the garage and kitchen, solves the problem during the day but not at night.

Based on information provided, sounds like the electrician wired the switch with 4 wire romex, but only needed 3. The pinkish coated wire in not needed for the explained switch configuration, simply cap it off and wire it as 3 wire romex.

[tlshoe]

I see white markings on the purple wire. Electricians mark wires in this way if they don’t have the proper colored wire. Assuming that’s what was done here, this purple wire should be treated as a white wire.

[Jsan143]

We have a solar tube in our laundry room between the garage and kitchen, solves the problem during the day but not at night.

Based on information provided, sounds like the electrician wired the switch with 4 wire romex, but only needed 3. The pinkish coated wire in not needed for the explained switch configuration, simply cap it off and wire it as 3 wire romex.
We also have the solar tube they now have solar night lights which we put in all of our solar tubes they work great recharge during the day very dim light so you don’t even have to turn the light on at night we also have them in our bathrooms

[Bigbird59]

We just got our home this past spring and found the laundry room with the switch’s was a pain. I took another route. I changed out the light with a motion sensor light it’s led and works great. Left the lights switch’s alone. Plug and play.

[Fastskiguy]

Motion sensing light bulbs sounds really easy but we're in the new "all LED" section of TV and I don't think....though could be wrong....that there is a motion sensing option for this type of light fixture.

As for my next move.....I've called for professional assistance!

[DaleDivine]

I think it’s time for an electrician to be called. You need a switch that can be used with that traveler wire. I installed a motion sensor in my old laundry room that was a 3 way switch configuration, best thing I did. You come home with your hands full and the light automatically turns on.
The other thing you have to do is program the switch once it’s installed, you set the sensitivity and length of time being on.

If you come home with your hands full... how did you get in the house???
Do you have an automatic door opener like a grocery store? Just curious.
:popcorn::popcorn:

[DaleDivine]

Personally I would have put in a skylight

Those work great after dark. Why have an auto light switch for daytime???
:ohdear::ohdear::shocked:

[Carlsondm]

I bought a motion triggered night light and plugged it directly into the mid “hall” outlet. We rarely use the switch overhead light, but we can if we want to. Amazon has several with varying features. I chose a skinny LED that allows me to use the other receptacle. Easy easy.

[Fastskiguy]

I bought a motion triggered night light and plugged it directly into the mid “hall” outlet. We rarely use the switch overhead light, but we can if we want to. Amazon has several with varying features. I chose a skinny LED that allows me to use the other receptacle. Easy easy.

Ah yeah I see how that would work just great, thanks for the idea :)

[frose]

2 switches red will power the second one

[Fastskiguy]

2 switches red will power the second one

I believe the red goes from one stock switch to the other stock switch so that either one can turn the light on or off by flipping it either way...if that makes any sense.

I my case I don't really want the other switch to have any control over the light....only the new motion sensor switch.

[Bay Kid]

Solar tubs are a great way to light a room. My Va. laundry room has no windows but it has a solar tub. No light needed during the day!

[panamachica]

I gave up and had a solar light installed.

[Bckaiser]

I suggest you hire an electrician who knows. You are working with a three-way switch set-up. You could start a house fire.

[Fastskiguy]

I suggest you hire an electrician who knows. You are working with a three-way switch set-up. You could start a house fire.

As posted above, it's happening! Thanks :)

[Footer]

Below is the wiring for the original 3 way switch. Note how the neutral goes directly from the box to the light and bypasses the switch. In your switchbox, the red wire is the traveler and one of the other black wires is also a traveler. The load (or line) was the wire that was connected to the black screw on your 3-way switch. The switch won't work if the black traveler is connected to the black screw.

You installed a 2-way switch, which is intended for only one switch controlling the light. The reason you have to connect the white wire to the ground is to get some power going through the switch to keep the motion sensing active, even when the switch is off. That's fine. It's designed that way. You're not going to cause a fire.

You capped the red wire, which means when the other switch sends power through the red wire the light will be off. When you flip it to the other position and the power goes through the black wire the light will be on because the motion switch senses you and closes the switch. If you leave the 3 way switch in that position all the time then the motion switch should work as you want. However, if the switch is set in the other position (light is off), I can't see how the motion switch can turn the light on. No way to complete the circuit.

Ideally you would install a 3 way motion switch that does not require a neutral. I believe the one you found on Amazon requires a neutral.

[Mistymom]

We solved this problem by purchasing a plug-in motion detectors at Home Depot.
The picture attached was taken in pitch black darkness.

[JoelJohnson]

Personally I would have put in a skylight

And the skylight helps at night how?

[Fastskiguy]

I suggest you hire an electrician who knows. You are working with a three-way switch set-up. You could start a house fire.

Below is the wiring for the original 3 way switch. Note how the neutral goes directly from the box to the light and bypasses the switch. In your switchbox, the red wire is the traveler and one of the other black wires is also a traveler. The load (or line) was the wire that was connected to the black screw on your 3-way switch. The switch won't work if the black traveler is connected to the black screw.

You installed a 2-way switch, which is intended for only one switch controlling the light. The reason you have to connect the white wire to the ground is to get some power going through the switch to keep the motion sensing active, even when the switch is off. That's fine. It's designed that way. You're not going to cause a fire.

You capped the red wire, which means when the other switch sends power through the red wire the light will be off. When you flip it to the other position and the power goes through the black wire the light will be on because the motion switch senses you and closes the switch. If you leave the 3 way switch in that position all the time then the motion switch should work as you want. However, if the switch is set in the other position (light is off), I can't see how the motion switch can turn the light on. No way to complete the circuit.

Ideally you would install a 3 way motion switch that does not require a neutral. I believe the one you found on Amazon requires a neutral.

With professional help...all set up and working perfectly :)

The diagram above in post #46 is exactly the way it is set up stock. The solution for my switch was...

Combine the line from the box to both the red and black traveler wires to the other switch. This keeps the motion switch in control of the light regardless of which way the other switch is positioned and provides power for the light.

Black to the black going to the light.

Bare ground on switch to bare ground in box.

And he dug out those white wires buried in the back of the box and hooked one to the white wire on the switch. This completed the circuit that provides power to the motion switch (both the switch needs power and the light needs power, the white completes the circuit back to the fuse box that provides power for the switch)

I hope this makes sense! Thanks for all of the comments :)

Joe

[Bigbird59]

I put 2 of those type light with motion detector in garage. I would check

[Catalina36]

Looks like you disconnected your 3 way switch. There must be another switch for the same light fixture that is not working after you altered the wiring. Put it all back the way you found it. 😊👍

[Fastskiguy]

Looks like you disconnected your 3 way switch. There must be another switch for the same light fixture that is not working after you altered the wiring. Put it all back the way you found it. 😊👍

Yes as described in post #1 there are two switches to this light and we wanted the other switch to be disabled so that no matter which position it is in the motion sensor controls the light....which we currently have.

After living with the motion sensor for a couple of days....we're not goin' back! It's really nice!

Joe

[PatsyHedrick]

I bought a motion sensor nightlight that plugs into the wall socket in the laundry room. Lowe's, about $10. Works great.